Re: Group topic: Kurzweil + Singularity.

On 27 Apr 2007 08:24:09 -0700, dan <dan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Apr 26, 1:59 pm, HMSBeagle <jsb...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 25 Apr 2007 08:59:15 -0700, feedbackdroid <feedbackdr...@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:





On Apr 23, 7:48 pm, Vend <ven...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 23 Apr, 23:25, HMSBeagle <jsb...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Thank you everyone for your replies.
I have several points.

1) The singularity may happen but it will not be AI technology.
Yudkowsky is simply wrong. Intelligence is not a software problem.
It is a problem of behavioral science. Strong AI is about how
artifacts interact with this particular world.

AFAIK, Strong AI is the philosophical queston on whether it is
possible to create intelligent artifacts. It is not a paradigm.

GOFAI claimed that
intelligence was a type of "thinking".

AFAIK, GOFAI is the class of techniques involving solely the
manipulation of high-level, domain-meaningful symbols.
It is a term used in retrospect to characterize the early attempts at
solving AI problems.
In my understanding, it makes no philosophical claims.

NewFAI says that intelligence
is a type of behavior.

I don't know this one.

I found Beagle's comments to be a little strange here. Does this mean
NewFAI is exactly what the 2 behaviorists on this forum contend it to
be? Does anyone ELSE [in the actual AI community] share this opinion?

What the hell is the phrase "actual AI community" referring to?
You're going to have to tell me what that is exactly before I can
respond to this post.




Um, how about providing some references to actual NewFAI people who
think that .... "intelligence is a type of behavior" ... and being
other than behaviorists.

You are not feedbackdroid, and I addressed this question to him. I
have noticed that he has not responded.

But since you decided to jump in the middle here and start making
accusations, I will defend myself. Niether Edelman nor Pfeifer are
behaviorists. Pfeifer has said numerous times in his own books that
"I am not taking a behaviorist position." If you don't think Gerald
Edelman is part of the "actual AI community" I will link you to
lectures he gave where he was talking about how Stanford AI
researchers "challenged" him to build a better robot than they could.

( He took up their challenge. You may be curious to know the
results. Maybe you would like to see the video? Yes? Or maybe you
aren't interested in what the actual AI community is doing these days.
Your choice! )




Super human AI will run the computers of the world in the future, and
it **WILL** matter to most people. It will be the ultimate extension
of current-day outsourcing and globalization.

Today, american jobs are outsourced to India and also [communist]-
China, of all places.

Recently I bought a notebook computer online from that good old red-
blooded and patriotic american company *Hewlett-Packard*, and it was
built and sent from Kunshan near Shanghai on mainland China [so I
found out by looking at the bill of lading after the computer was
delivered].

http://www.google.com/custom?&q=kunshan+china

http://www.ketd.gov.cn/english/index.asp
=================
By the end of September 2002, more than 900 companies have been set up
with investments from 38 countries and regions across the world,
mainly in the business of IT industry and the production of precision
machinery and daily-life stufff.
=================

That is how HP got to be the current #1 computer company in the world.
Think about that. It's mindboggling. HP got to be #1 by outsourcing
american manufacturing to cheap "communist" labor. Thanks, Carly
Fiorina.

And just wait till essentially ALL of intellectual function is
outsourced to super-intelligent computers in the future. The next few
comments of Beagle sound incredibly short-sighted. "... will not
penetrate outside of university walls ...".

If it costs $14 million to build a single super-human AI, no company
on earth will ever use it. (Why pay $14 million for a single piece
of hardware that is a little more clever than a human, when you can
hire a full-blown human for $5/hour in India?) The military might
use it. A couple of universities in Europe might have one. But
that's about it. It's cost/benefit analysis. Cost/benefit analysis
is precisely what has moved all the HP jobs to Kunshan. You know what
I'm saying here is true.



That's what I said. And I also said ...

Super human AI will run the computers of the world in the future, and
it **WILL** matter to most people. It will be the ultimate extension
of current-day outsourcing and globalization.


IOW, outsourcing is already moving jobs out of the 1st world and into
the 3rd world. Having superhuman computers in the future will be the
natural extension of this process. And maybe in the future we'll all
get to live like domesticated Eloi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Time_Machine


I'm sorry to say that I don't accept argument via science fiction.
.