Re: exhaustive definition in the life sciences - an oxymoron?

On 29 Dec 2005 11:50:57 -0800, "feedbackdroids"
<feedbackdroids@xxxxxxxxx> in comp.ai.philosophy wrote:

>
>> >Biology is an experimental science. Despite all your circumnavigations,
>> >this still hasn't seemed to have sunk in.
>>
>> Sure. But only because you don't have a clue which despite all your
>> circumlocutions (not circumnavigations which what Magellan's ship did)
>> still doesn't seem to have sunk in. However I'm confident you already
>> have your next excuse for failure in ai ready.
>>
>>
>
>
>Failure in AI? :):):). What's your big problem? You think a definition
>is a magic wand? I'm just a lowly squib, trying to learn something
>useful. Filter the wheat from the chaff, as they say. But I must be
>doing something right, since I get the same verbal responses from both
>extremist ends of the spectrum.

And you keep changing the subject, Dan. You go from claiming
that consciousness is not the subject of ai. Hell, I'd settle for a
little intelligence for a change. My problem is you want to assign
consciousness to everything alive without being able to define the
term. When I ask what consciousness means you say its scalable.
Then when I propose an exhaustive definition first you say an
exhaustive definition is not possible. Then when I show how it is
possible you say it's too narrow. Then I say okay define it in terms
of things an organism is conscious of. Then you call me an extremist.
I get a little tired of people who use categorical Aristotelian logic
to defend their inability to say exactly what they're talking about.
You want to build robots go ahead that kinda act like animals? Just
don't talk to me about consciousness, sentience, intelligence or
anything else you can't exhaustively define.

By the way, Dan, your posts are being double posted a lot.

>I hold out no hope whatsover that anyone will invent a "conscious"
>robot in my lifetime, and AFAIAC, it's totally IRRELEVANT. A
>philosophical word-game, not a practical matter. There are many more
>realistic things to work on in the foreseeble future .... eg,

Yadayada whatever. You're the one who started talking about
consciousness in organisms as scalable. So don't blame me that
you backed into a pickle you couldn't explain or define. Most people
seem to think they can just deny whatever they please without defining
what they're denying. That includes both you and the behaviorists.
It's called philosophy not science and I'm not the one doing it.

>http://www.frc.ri.cmu.edu/~hpm/project.archive/robot.papers/2000/puddle.html
>
>================
>The first widely usable products will be guidance systems for
>industrial transport and cleaning machines that three-dimensionally map
>
>and competently navigate unfamiliar spaces, and can be quickly taught
>new routes by ordinary workers. I have been developing programs that do
>
>this. They need about a billion calculations per second, like the
>brainpower of a guppy! Industrial machines will be followed by
>mass-marketed utility robots for homes. The first may be a small, very
>autonomous robot vacuum cleaner that maps a residence, plans its own
>routes and schedules, keeps itself charged and empties its dustbag when
>
>necessary into a larger container. Larger machines with manipulator
>arms and the ability to perform several different tasks may follow,
>culminating eventually in human-scale "universal" robots that can run
>application programs for most simple chores. Their
>10-billion-calculation-per-second lizard-scale minds would execute
>application programs with reptilian inflexibility.
>==============
>


~v~~

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Construction of a Conscious Thing
    ... I don't mind responding to postings which quibble about the ... Hint "Robots in disguise". ... Consciousness? ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Construction of a Conscious Thing
    ... I don't mind responding to postings which quibble about the ... Hint "Robots in disguise". ... Consciousness? ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Construction of a Conscious Thing
    ... I don't mind responding to postings which quibble about the ... Consciousness? ... The construction is also ... Start off with millions of identical ordinary robots. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Construction of a Conscious Thing
    ... Construction of a Conscious Thing ... It shows how consciousness might be produced from non- ... Start off with millions of identical ordinary robots. ... Each robot is pre-programmed to collect things from the environment at ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Construction of a Conscious Thing
    ... Consciousness? ... Construction of a Conscious Thing ... Start off with millions of identical ordinary robots. ... Each robot is pre-programmed to collect things from the environment at ...
    (talk.origins)