Re: She has Indian blood.

On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 09:31:01 +0000, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
<mail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 13:58:23 +0000, Chuck Riggs <chriggs@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 08:39:30 -0500, "James Silverton"
<not.jim.silverton@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Chuck wrote on Fri, 18 Dec 2009 12:49:28 +0000:

Cheryl wrote on Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:47:57 -0330:

Skitt wrote:
James Silverton wrote:

"Black Irish" is used to mean "Protestant Irish". I'm not
sure about whether there was an implication of immorality
but it would not surprise me at all.

Hmm. I thought it was applied to those Irish of partially
Spanish descent. Catholic, of course. My second wife,
Kathleen, a black-haired girl from a *very* Catholic
family (Jesuits, priests, nuns, and such) called
herself that. http://home.comcast.net/~skitt99/KA3.jpg

I've never understood this "Black Irish" thing. Surely all
the original Irish people had black hair and, like the
Welsh, some had a fairly dark skin. The red/blond hair and
light skin came from the Viking settlers.

I always heard that it was more than black hair - a 'black
Irish' person had black hair, very pale skin and blue eyes.
It was attributed to the influence of Spanish sailors washed
ashore after the wreck of the Spanish Armada, which always
sounded a bit fanciful to me.

I *have* heard 'Black Protestant', not personally, but
attributed to an elderly Newfoundland lady of Irish Catholic
ancestry a good many years ago who thought the expression
meant all Protestants had dark hair, and was surprised when
she met a blonde one. I find that a bit hard to believe, but
stranger beliefs have arisen about unfamiliar people.

It's a complicated topic. One of the most attractive and
characteristic types of Celtic woman has black, curly hair
and very white skin.

Whatever their origins are, I saw them fairly often when I
lived in County Mayo. The girls are striking, with the sharp
contrast between their white skin and dark black hair.

I don't think that Spanish ancestry is likely since such pretty girls
are not uncommon in Oban, Argyll, Scotland where I was brought up.
That's why I used the word "Celtic". I even knew two of them from my
senior school classes.

Very black hair is unusual in Ireland. I've never seen it in Dublin
girls and only in a handful of County Mayo girls. There must be some
explanation that makes sense and the Armada one is romantic enough and
plausible enough that I'll stick with it until a better one comes
along.

It's difficult to rule out anything that is even fractionally plausible,
but I wouldn't bet on the Armada survivor(s) theory, though. Wikipedia
summarises:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Armada_in_Ireland

...the Armada had attempted to return home through the North
Atlantic, when it was driven from its course by violent storms and
toward the west coast of Ireland. The prospect of a Spanish landing
alarmed the Dublin government of Queen Elizabeth I, and harsh
measures were prescribed for both the Spanish invaders and any Irish
who might assist them.

In the event, up to 24 Spanish ships were wrecked on a rocky
coastline spanning 500 km, from Antrim in the north to Kerry in the
south, and the threat to Crown authority was readily defeated. Most
of the survivors of the multiple wrecks were put to death, and the
remainder fled across the sea to Scotland. It is estimated that
5,000 members of the fleet perished in Ireland.

Of those 5000, do you not find it highly plausible that a few dozen
were given shelter for the night by some white-skinned colleens?
--

Regards,

Chuck Riggs,
An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: She has Indian blood.
    ... I've never understood this "Black Irish" thing. ... some had a fairly dark skin. ... Irish' person had black hair, very pale skin and blue eyes. ... It was attributed to the influence of Spanish sailors washed ...
    (alt.usage.english)
  • Re: She has Indian blood.
    ... some had a fairly dark skin. ... Irish' person had black hair, very pale skin and blue eyes. ... As well as meeting Mr O'Keeffe, the group, which included, Royal Black Grand Registrar Billy Scott; Sovereign Grand Master Millar Farr; Grand Master Cavan Willie Roberts; Grand Master Monaghan Eric Mackarel; and Imperial Grand Treasurer William Abernethy, also met Fine Gael education spokesman Brian Hayes. ...
    (alt.usage.english)
  • Re: She has Indian blood.
    ... I've never understood this "Black Irish" thing. ... some had a fairly dark skin. ... Irish' person had black hair, very pale skin and blue eyes. ... It was attributed to the influence of Spanish sailors washed ...
    (alt.usage.english)
  • Re: She has Indian blood.
    ... but it would not surprise me at all. ... I've never understood this "Black Irish" thing. ... skin came from the Viking settlers. ... Irish' person had black hair, very pale skin and blue eyes. ...
    (alt.usage.english)
  • Re: She has Indian blood.
    ... but it would not surprise me at all. ... some had a fairly dark skin. ... Irish' person had black hair, very pale skin and blue eyes. ... It was attributed to the influence of Spanish sailors washed ...
    (alt.usage.english)