Re: Simple Past vs. Past Perfect

"Jerry Friedman" <jerry_friedman@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:ef67429c-8a2d-4dc2-ac67-21da9fa6f7c7@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Oct 22, 3:54 am, Farhad <fvafa...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Dear All,

According to English grammar books, Past Perfect is used to
emphasize
that an action occured before another action in the past. However,
the
following two sentences contradict this rule. How would you justify
this?

1. The teacher took my paper before I had finished the test.
2. Before his mother had said one word of reprimand, the child began
to cry.

Jerry:
I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't use "had" in either sentence. (I'm
American.)

Pat:
And, I am pretty sure that I would find the above usages entirely
unremarkable. I would call them standard USage.

Jerru:
This looks to me as if the past perfect has "spread" into these
sentences from other sentences with the same meanings. We would say,
"The teacher took my paper when I hadn't finished the test yet," and
"The child's mother hadn't said one word of reprimand when he began to
cry."

Pat:
I hear this usage from time to time, and I don't think it varies from
a common usage to a remarkable extent.

Jerry:
(I think "positive anymore" is an example of similar "spreading".
Everyone says, "There's not much of that anymore," so some Americans
find it natural to say, "There's only a little of that anymore.")


Pat:
I agree with this usage. I mean, I hear it from time to time. Its
usage is not rare. "Anymore, I can see the field from here.:

--
Pat Durkin
durkinpa at msn.com
Wisconsin




.

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