Re: Decimals

Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

In message <1j53cx9.ffcxj91rbw5drN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, J. J. Lodder
<nospam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes
James Hogg <Jas.Hogg@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Quoth nospam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (J. J. Lodder), and I quote:

Peter Moylan <peter@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Cece wrote:

I've also seen a mention of four of something,
written ".iiij" -- the "j" simply signifies the end; at the time, i
with a tail was the form of the letter in final position.

More interestingly, the "ii" at the end of many Latin words turned
into "ij", and then into "y with two dots". I've only ever seen the
y-with-two-dots form in Flemish inscriptions, but the context made
it clear that the symbol in question was an i in combination with
a j. Now, these many years later, we have many adjectives and adverbs
that end in "y", a letter that didn't exist in the Latin alphabet.

The y-grec with trema, ÿ should never be confused
with the Dutch/Flemish ij.
No Dutch word has an ÿ in it.
It occurs only in a few French place names
and some proper names,

A trema-less "y" has replaced "ij" in Afrikaans, with "vry" and
"vyf" where Dutch has "vrij" and "vijf".

In Afrikaans y is a letter.
In Dutch ij isn't, or is.
(shields up)

As an outsider, I have always understood that 'ij' was just a convenient
way of writing the 'ÿ' and, depending on the local accent, was
pronounced essentially the same as 'ei' (an English short 'ay-ee' sound,
rather than the long 'y' in 'eye').

There is no ÿ in Dutch, only an ij and an y.
In modern Dutch 'ij' and 'ei' pronounce the some.
(and they can't be abolished because changing ei to ij
sometimes changes the meaning of a word)

In old Dutch, and still in some dialects, pronunciations differ,
with ij being pronounced as (Dutch) ie. (like English ee)

A Belgian lady works colleague called 'van Dyke', and known to us as
'van Dike', said that her name should really be pronounced like we would
say 'van Deekuh' in English. I can understand the 'uh' at the end (which
would be normal in Dutch), but the English 'ee' was presumably a local
variation.

Yes, Flanders and Zeeland. Some of her distant relatives
may spell their family name as Van Dieke or Van Dijke,
and pronounce them differently,

Jan

PS Having y or ij in family names may be a matter of chance.
I once met a man named Kasteleyn,
who told me his brother's name was Kasteleijn.
(in the archives, and on all offficial documeents like passports)
Mistakes like these can be corrected
only by referring to the original archives.
Unfortunately the originals were burned in a city hall fire
before WW II.
The copy archives (the Dutch are thorough administrators)
were destroyed in WW II when the RAF
bombed the Bezuidenhout quarter of Den Hague.
(when trying to bomb a V2 launch site some km away)

So the brothers (and all their descendants)
will have different family names forever.

.

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