Re: Smocks and sailors

bert wrote:
On 16 Aug, 16:58, p...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx (Per Rønne) wrote:
My Danish-English and English-Danish dictionary tell me that a
"busseronne" [the upper part of a "sailor's suit" as worn by sailors in
the Royal Navy] is called a "smock" in English, but my English-English
dictionary says it is women's clothes - though they are mentioned as
boys' clothes here:

<http://histclo.com/Country/fran/co-fran-19504g.html>

Furthermore, my English-English dictionaries tell me that a "sailor's
suit" is the clothes for children, not the Navy uniform or similar
clothes worn by other seamen decades ago.

What do you call the upper part of a sailor's suit for sailors in the
Navy? The one with the square collar in the back. And what do you call a
sailor's "sailor suit", if "sailor's suit" is only used for children?

In Danish we say "matrostøj", in German it is "Matrosenanzüge" - for
boys and soldiers alike.

Other dictionaries widen the definition. Mine (Chambers)
gives as the first definition "a coarse linen garment,
formerly worn by farm workers in southern England", then
"a similar garment worn by artists, etc.". Its meaning
as a woman's garment comes after these.

I would understand "fisherman's smock" or "sailor's smock"
to mean a similar large, loose, protective garment, much
bigger than a normal jacket. The upper part of a sailor's
suit is just a jacket, and it may formerly have been called
a "bluejacket", although that word is now a slang term for
a sailor. A "sailor suit" is a sailor-style suit not worn
by a sailor, usually by a child or sometimes a woman, while
a "sailor's suit" is the real thing. I can understand that
these two terms may translate into the same term in a foreign
language, but in English they refer to quite different things.

I'm not so sure you can even get away with "sailor's suit" these days without making the listener think of some children's garb. I'd go for "sailor's/naval uniform/dress".

Re. "smock" being feminine clothing: compare "(battledress) blouse" for the top that used to be worn by soldiers, or even the word "dress". Context rules.


--

Rob Bannister
.

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