Re: Donne: The Relic

JerryS wrote:

1.
"To be to more than one a bed"
is this about bawdy women come in pairs to man's bed?

An aside on the unfaithfulness of the female race. Graves have
learned the womanly practice of accommodating more than one guest.
The word order is inverted from "to be a bed to more than one".

2.
What "thereby" are we dealing with here?
"and I
A something else [1] thereby"
Is it "near that," "beside that?"
That seems Scotts:
----
thereby

chiefly Scotland : beside that : near by : about that : BESIDE,
THEREABOUTS
M-W Unabridged
----

I think both "near that" and "by means or because of that". Because
they will take her wreath to be a relic of Mary Magdalen, they will
also take his bones to be relics, perhaps those of Jesus. Not sure
how that squares with the Resurrection; I remember a joke heard in
childhood about small bones discovered in Spain, thought to be the
remains of Christopher Columbus as a child.

3. Does
"If this fall in a time, or land,"
mean
"Should this happen in a time ..." ?

Yes.

4.
"I would have that age by this paper [2] taught"
Talking about teaching the _people_ of that imaginary age?

Yes.

5.
"Yet knew not what we loved,"
Were they too young to appreciate what they had?

I think it's more a return to the theme of love in the cloud of
unknowing, love so refined that it has no regard for beauty or virtue.

6.
"Perchance might kiss,[3] but not between those meals ;[4]"
What are the meals? Instances of heavy kissing?
Sex is probably out of discussion, see Norton [5].

Spiritual nourishment, is how I read it, as per the note. Perhaps
"coming and going" refers only to kisses of greeting and parting, but
I'm suspicious. How old is "coming" in the sexual sense, I wonder?
It seems possible that his protestations are in the nature of "I never
had sexual relations with that woman." (Messed around, though.)

I don't think we have to take everything he says literally: Donne
would have had several audiences in mind: the woman he is addressing
and the general reader, at least, and maybe the moral majority too,
and would have wanted to say different things to each of them.

7.
"Difference of sex we never knew"
is shown in Norton as:
"Difference of sex no more we knew"

I don't think that's a paraphrase of the words you quoted: "no more"
appears in the next line.

Does this mean a sex-less love, asexual love?
Or simply "pure?"

Both, necessarily, I think. Maybe also the beginning of the
equivocating claim that they never engaged in coitus. It's a miracle
they managed, really.

I await corrections and improvements with interest.

Have you changed your handle?

-----
WHEN my grave is broke up again
Some second guest to entertain,[7]
?For graves have learn'd that woman-head,[8]
To be to more than one a bed?
And he that digs it, spies
A bracelet of bright hair about the bone,
Will he not let us alone,
And think that there a loving couple lies,
Who thought that this device might be some way
To make their souls at the last busy day [9]
Meet at this grave, and make a little stay?

If this fall in a time, or land,
Where mass-devotion doth command,
Then he that digs us up will bring
Us to the bishop or the king,
To make us relics ; then
Thou shalt be a Mary Magdalen, and I
A something else [1] thereby ;
All women shall adore us, and some men.
And, since at such time miracles are sought,
I would have that age by this paper [2] taught
What miracles we harmless lovers wrought.

First we loved well and faithfully,
Yet knew not what we loved, nor why ;
Difference of sex we never knew,
No more than guardian angels do ;
Coming and going we
Perchance might kiss,[3] but not between those meals ;[4]
Our hands ne'er touch'd the seals,
Which nature, injured by late law,[5] sets free.
These miracles we did ; but now alas !
All measure, and all language, I should pass,
Should I tell what a miracle she was.

John Donne: The Relic, p. 110
http://www.luminarium.org/sevenlit/donne/relic.htm
------
Norton notes:
[7] Reusing burial ground was common.
[8] Womanhood, but with a bawdy analogue to maidenhead.
[9] At the Ressurection
[1] Some other relic, or perhaps a bone of Christ, who some believe
was linked to mary Magdalen.
[2] The poem
[3] Kiss in salutation or in parting
[4] These kisses are the food of the soul.
[5] We never had physical relations, which Nature allows to all
other species, but which mankind has made ilicit. In this context,
_seals_ mai refer to the maidenhead.


.

Loading