Re: Marshmallows

On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 06:30:47 +0800, Robert Bannister
<robban1@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Bob Cunningham wrote:
On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 12:34:50 -0400, "Maria C."
<conlonmaria@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Chuck Riggs wrote, in part:

Assuming we generally adhere to the rules of grammar in formal
writing, I can't see how "who-knows-who" can be correct, even if we
might be more lax in conversation.
It certainly sounds better (to me, at least) than "who-knows-whom" does.

Call it an idiom, or call it "casual" if that helps.

Rules for use of "whom":

In normal use, avoid "whom" like the plague, consigning it
to the old-fashioned, pedantic niche that it deserves to be
consigned to. Never say "whom", no matter who you think it
might please.

In rigidly formal use, follow William Safire's advice: If
you find that you have written a sentence that requires the
use of "whom", rephrase the sentence to eliminate the need.


I would find that hard to follow in the case where "who(m)" comes
directly after a preposition. Yes, it is true it is possible to
rephrase, but I don't believe such sentences are sufficiently awkward or
distasteful to make it necessary.

If we want to seem affected and pedantic and if we want to distract
attention from what we're saying to how we're saying it, we can say
"To whom should I give it?"

If we want to talk like* normal people talk, we can say "Who should I
give it to?"

* Yes, "like". Let's hear it for "like" as a conjunction.
--
Bob Cunningham, Southern California, USA. Western American English
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Marshmallows
    ... Call it an idiom, or call it "casual" if that helps. ... In normal use, avoid "whom" like the plague, consigning it ... Yes, it is true it is possible to rephrase, but I don't believe such sentences are sufficiently awkward or distasteful to make it necessary. ...
    (alt.usage.english)
  • Re: Using "whom" [was: Re: Marshmallows]
    ... In normal use, avoid "whom" like the plague, consigning it ... John, whom I met for the first time only yesterday, invited me to ... I'm not saying that it can't be rewritten, ... be various degrees of acceptance, ...
    (alt.usage.english)
  • Re: Query: Boku desu sentence meaning.
    ... the first clause. ... I see what you're saying, but I don't think it's fatal for the ... You could simply rephrase "If there's self-awareness, ...
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  • Re: Marshmallows
    ... Yes, it is true it is possible to rephrase, but I don't believe such sentences are sufficiently awkward or distasteful to make it necessary. ... attention from what we're saying to how we're saying it, ... I totally agree, but sometimes, in a complex sentence, it does work out neater or easier to use that kind of phrasing. ...
    (alt.usage.english)
  • Re: Using "whom" [was: Re: Marshmallows]
    ... In normal use, avoid "whom" like the plague, consigning it ... John, whom I met for the first time only yesterday, invited me to ... I'm not saying that it can't be rewritten, ... Chuck Riggs ...
    (alt.usage.english)