Re: Zionist pressure group ADL offers solution to the "December Dilemma" of European Christmas celebrations

On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 09:28:10 -0800, Evan Kirshenbaum
<kirshenbaum@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Steve Hayes <hayesmstw@xxxxxxxxxxx> writes:

Evan Kirshenbaum <kirshenbaum@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Steve Hayes <hayesmstw@xxxxxxxxxxx> writes:

Evan Kirshenbaum <kirshenbaum@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Steve Hayes <hayesmstw@xxxxxxxxxxx> writes:

tony cooper <tony_cooper213@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I think you misunderstand what the article is about. It's *not*
about what the children, or their parents, do during the holidays.
It's about what the schools can do, should do, and are allowed to
do during the holiday season.

No, I think the article is just silly, because the kids aren't IN
school in the holiday season, expet, perhaps, take the opportunity
for doing necessary maintenance and repairs.

Chanukah started Tuesday night and will last through next Wednesday.
Diwali was November 9th, Eid ul-Fitr October 12th. I presume based on
your statement that children in South Africa have been off school for
the last two months and will be off at least through Twelfth Night on
the sixth of January.

I'm not sure how you can presume that based that on MY statement.

South African schoolas are on holiday now, and will be until about 9
January.

Summer vacation? Sorry, I forgot to flip the seasons.

But my statement was that since schools in most places are on
holiday on December 25, they need not bother doing anything about
Christmas. Other festivals and days of observance may affect their
pupils, but not Christmas.

The whole point of the phrase "holiday season" is that there is more
than just Christmas going on.

I think we're still talking at cross purposes.

A minor usage point is that in South Africa "holiday season"
suggests the period when the schools are closed for the holidays and
the universities for vacation. There are normally four of those in
the year, though some "faith-based" schools have a three-term year,
following the pattern of British universities, though reversed
because the seasons are different in the different hemispheres.

I'd say that that's more than a minor point. In the US, "holdiay"
doesn't mean "period when schools are closed". That's "break" or
"vacation". Holidays are only the religious special days or their
secular equivalents, whether or not they imply time off. So "holiday
season" means "the time of year when there are a number of such
holidays". It can mean either or both of the trio of holidays
celebrated by most Christian Americans: Thanksgiving, Christmas, and
New Years or Christmas and the non-Christian holidays that occur
around the same time and are considered to be "roughly the same
thing".

But my main point was that in South Africa there is no need for
schools to take any notice whatever of Christmas, since the
Christmas season proper (25 December to 6 January) falls enirely
within the school holidays, when the kids are not at school. But it
also seems to me that the kids are not at school in that period in
most English-speaking countries, so it woudl apply equally
elsewhere.

That's another difference, then. Around here, people don't start
preparing for Christmas on December 25th. Trees go up and houses
start being decorated[1] in early December. Stores have Christmas
displays; radio stations play christmas music. Santa Clauses are out
ringing bells and asking for donations. By December 26th, Christmas
is largely over.

My point was therefore that if any advice is to be given to schools
on what to do about the Christmas season, the best advice is
"nothing". They should do nothing at all about it, because the
Christmas season falls bang in the middle of the school holidays.

As I note above, the Christmas season here, as observed by the people
(not merely as promoted by the stores) seems to run from about
December first through December 26th, all but the last few days of
which most kids are in school.

Secular schools do nothing at all about the Dormition/Assumption of
the Virgin Mary on August 15 (which, though it falls in the school
holidays in the northern hemisphere falls in the middle of a school
term here), so why should they do anything about Christmas?

Yet another difference. Unlike in South Africa, Christmas isn't a
holiday that you wouldn't know about if you weren't specifically
interested in a particular religion. Rather, it's a holiday with a
long tradition of public decoration, celebration, and pageantry.
People here (Christians, at least) expect it to be dealt with.

I agree that secular schools don't need to do anything about any of
these holidays, but the argument that the reason they shouldn't be
expected to is that the holiday falls on a day when school isn't in
session doesn't hold much water.

From the Equality and Human Rights Commission in the UK today 10
Dec 2007:
http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/newsandcomment/Pages/ClaimbackChristmas.aspx

Commission and religious leaders claim back Christmas

As accusations of cancelling Christmas reach a fevered
pitch, the Equality and Human Rights Commission has joined
with high profile faith leaders to claim it back.

The Commission is responding to a growing feeling that it's
taboo to celebrate Christmas in our public spaces. This year
it is the traditional Christian nativity play that is the
centre of the stories.

Every year, a local authority or public body falls prey to
the accusation of "cancelling Christmas" and PC run amok.
The resulting media furore is now a regular ritual of the
holiday season itself.

In a joint statement issued today, senior figures from the
Hindu, Sikh and Muslim communities have joined with the
Commission to say: Let's stop being silly about a Christian
Christmas.

Speaking at a conference on Diversity in London today,
Trevor Phillips, Chair of the Equality and Human Rights
Commission, will say:

"A lot of these stories about Christmas are the usual silly
season stuff. But I can't help feeling there's sometimes an
underlying agenda to use this great holiday to fuel
community tension.

That's why I asked leaders in different religious
communities to join me in saying: It's time to stop being
daft about Christmas. It's fine to celebrate and it's fine
for Christ to be the star of the show."

Anil Bhanot, General Secretary, Hindu Council UK said:

"Hindus celebrate Christmas too. It's a great holiday for
everyone living in Britain. We would like Christians to
continue to carry Jesus' message of love. Barring the faiths
of others does not fit in with the Hindu religion."

Dr Indarjit Singh, Director, Network of Sikh Organisations
UK said:

"Every year I am asked, 'do I object to the celebration of
Christmas?' It's an absurd question. As ever, my family and
I will send out our Christmas cards to our Christian friends
and others. In the spirit of Christmas, we in the Singh
family will, as usual, force ourselves to have extra turkey,
Christmas pudding and mince pies, the lot ? all in the cause
of inter-faith harmony. No one can say Sikhs don't go the
extra mile!"

Shayk Ibrahim Mogra, Chair of the Inter Faith Relations
Committee, Muslim Council of Britain said:

"To suggest celebrating Christmas and having decorations
offends Muslims is absurd. Why should Christmas not be
celebrated openly and wholeheartedly in our country when a
vast majority of people are Christians? Why can't we have
more nativity scenes in Britain? It would be wonderful to
show my children what Jesus means to Christians and to learn
the different beliefs we all hold."

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
.

Relevant Pages

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