Re: Blink like an owl

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:20:31 +0100, Archie Valparaiso
<archievalparaiso@xxxxxxxxxxx> said:

[...]

In Spain, a dry stream is called a *rambla* if it's created by -- and
in many cases still prone to -- flash floods. (I don't know whether
it's used in the same way in the Americas.)

The "Word Reference" translation site (
http://www.wordreference.com/es/en/translation.asp?spen=rambla
) has

rambla f
1 (avenida) boulevard, avenue
2 (de agua) watercourse
- Diccionario Espasa Concise: Español-Inglés
English-Spanish
© Espasa-Calpe, S.A., Madrid 2000

I've never known for sure what "watercourse" means, but I
see now that _Merriam-Webster's 11th Collegiate_ has

Main Entry: watercourse
Pronunciation: [...]
Function: noun
Date: 1510
1 : a natural or artificial channel through which
water flows
2 : a stream of water (as a river, brook, or
underground stream)

But the _Oxford Spanish Dictionary Second Edition_ has for
"rambla"

(a) (cauce seco) dry riverbed, watercourse

The British _New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary_ says a
watercourse is a flowing stream, but has a second definition
as the bed of a stream without saying whether that bed can
be dry:

watercourse /"w<revc>:t<schwa>k<revc>:s/ n.E16.
[f. WATER n. + COURSE n.1]
1 A stream of water; a river, a brook. Also, an
artificial channel for conveying water. E16.
2 The bed or channel of a river or stream. M16.

So there seems to be a difference of usage as to whether a
watercourse is a stream of running water or a channel
through which water could run but doesn't usually, or
doesn't necessarily.

So, *rambla seca* might arguably be called tautologous,
because the dryness is part of the meaning, but not
*arroyo seco*.

An interesting twist to this discussion is that the English
meaning of "arroyo" seems to differ from the Spanish
meaning. In English an arroyo is a gulch or gully that is
usually dry, while in Spanish it's a stream. So in
critiquing the phrase "arroyo seco" it may be appropriate to
ask whether we should do so while viewing it as an English
word modified by a Spanish adjective or a Spanish word
modified by a Spanish adjective.

If we take "arroyo seco" to be using the English word
"arroyo", then "arroyo seco" can be called tautologous, but
not if we take it to be using the Spanish word "arroyo".

Are there well-known English phrases that have an English
word modified by a foreign adjective, and with the English
word differing substantially in meaning from its foreign
cognate?
.

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