Re: James Watson loses job over speech

nospam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (J. J. Lodder) wrote in
news:1i6op2q.ts798ve8ms9eN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:

Barbara Bailey <rabrabbjb@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Peter Duncanson wrote:

J.J. Lodder wrote:

John Holmes wrote:

The scientist, considered "the grandfather of DNA", has also
argued that one day it might be possible to modify the genetic
code to make people more beautiful, especially women.

Now there lies a problem for evolution theory.
Supposedly men have been selecting women for beauty
for countless generations.

Why aren't all women beautiful by now?

Because it is not true that *all* men have been selecting women
for beauty for countless generations.

And, even if they have been, not all men have the same standard
definition of "beauty." What's beautiful in one culture is not in
another and even within the same culture individual men will have
different priorities for defining "beauty".

That is no doubt true, but individuals don't matter in evolution.

Individuals matter in evolution if enough of them make divergent choices
in breeding qualities, or if they are prolific enough to influence the
genetic make-up of a significant part of the population. Since aside
from a few generalities, there is no worldwide consensus on what makes a
woman "beautiful" (those generalities include eyes that are large in
relation to the face, symmetry of facial features, and an aethetically
plaesing bust-waist-hip ratio (which is not universally agreed on across
cultures, by the way,)) divergent choice is the norm, not the exception.

Progress, if any, is at best on average.
While rankings on beauty of individuals may vary
you will see trends in populations.

For your argument to work you would have to argue
that patterns in tastes have been changing all the time.

They have been. Look at the way "beautiful" women are described in
literature and paintings over the centuries. Look at pictures from
fashion or society magazines from
the 1890's,
<http://www.pastpatterns.com/301.html>
the 1920's,
<http://www.pastpatterns.com/503.html>
the 1930's,
<http://www.pastpatterns.com/807b.html>
the 1960's
<http://www.uen.org/utahlink/tours/tourImage.cgi?image_id=21484&tour_id=
13227>
and now
<http://www.onlygowns.com/purchase/productdetail.asp?cgmain=102&cgsub=135
&prodid=513>

and tell me again that the image of the "ideal body type" hasn't changed.

Those dresses are all designed to highlight certain parts or proportions
of the body. A woman with a figure to look good in the dress from the
1890s would also look good in the one from now, but she'd look absurd in
the one from the 1920's, and the one from the 60's would look equally
good or bad on anyone, since it doesn't show the body shape at all. The
cultural details of "beauty" have changed, and continue to change on an
ongoing basis.



But it's still your original premise that's flawed, which is that *all*
men have *always* chosen the women they want *to breed with* on the basis
of beauty.

Beauty may be a significant factor in choosing a mistress, concubine or
lover, but those women aren't necessarily intended for (and often, in
fact, have no intention of, desire for, or willingness to go along with)
breeding.

.

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