Re: Pronunciations for U.S. Presidents

Pat wrote:

Regarding the name Czolgosz, I found the following:

"Written according to its sound, the name of Czolgosz, or its nearest
equivalent, is "Tchollgosch," or, more broadly speaking, "Schollgosch." The former pronunciation is given by one who is familiar with the varied dialects in Polish Russia, from whence the parents of Leon Czolgosz came to this country.

The "tch" and "sch" in the above make me believe that the information
came from a German source. English speakers would be more likely to
write "ch" and "sh".

"Cz" is represented in the Russian alphabet by a character which is pronounced much the same as though one were suppressing a sneeze -"tch." The next two letters-"ol"-are pronounced in combination as though written "oll," and the remaining letters of the name-"gosz"- maybe given the sound of "gosch.""

Regarding the above, does anyone know if the "oll" they refer to would be pronounced like "doll" or "poll".

It's probably a vowel that doesn't even occur in English. For myself,
I'd be inclined to believe that the "doll" vowel is the better
approximation. That, however, is an Australian "doll" vowel, which is
similar to the British "doll" but very different from the American
"doll". (To the best of my knowledge, neither of the vowels in
British "doll" and "poll" exist in most American dialects.) Thus, you
need to specify your own dialect or language to get a good answer.

For those who understand ASCII IPA, I pronounce "doll" and "poll" as
[dA.l] and [pA.:l]. (Same vowel, different length.) In that notation, my
answer to the original question is [tSjA.lgA.S]. That's a broad
transcription; I don't know enough about phonetic notation to add the
niceties. In addition, I don't know whether the Russian spelling of the
name would have had a hard or soft "l". (Not that it matters, because
most English speakers can't hear the difference.) I'm guessing that the
first vowel is the Russian "yo" vowel, but I could be wrong, and again
it's not a distinction that English speakers would notice.

Also, would the "gosch" syllable be pronounced like "gosh" (or "gawsh", or something else?), or would it be pronounced like "gosh" followed by a separate "ch" sound, as in "gosh" "ch".

The "shch" is a letter in the Russian alphabet, but I have a feeling
that that combination is not used in Polish. I'd be inclined to
pronounce it as a simple "gosh". Having said that, I should add that I
don't speak Polish. I'm merely basing this on hearing Poles pronounce
their own names. Furthermore, as you yourself have hinted, the dialects
of Polish Russia could be very different from those of Poland.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org

Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain
eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer
receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses. The optusnet
address could disappear at any time.
.

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