Re: Signs and Symptoms


Tony Cooper wrote:
On 30 Jun 2006 01:50:54 -0700, "TOF" <fran_beta@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


Tony Cooper wrote:
On 29 Jun 2006 21:39:24 -0700, "TOF" <fran_beta@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I was watching "House" the other night. I find it an amusing romp.
Still, a part of the persona of the main character "Dr House" is his
precision in specifying medical phenomena.

During the course of the episode, during one of his team meetings, he
described a patient's signs (what is observable about a patient's
condition) using the word "symptoms" (what a patient reports about his
condition that is not observable) and later in the program, one of his
offsiders described what a patient was reporting about himself as "a
sign".

Admittedly, this latter usage might have been a lay term -- "that's a
very good sign ..." -- rather than the medical "sign" as above.

Comments?

The patient's symptoms are what is observed to be indications of some
condition based on examination or discussion with the patient. The
patient's signs are what is determined about the patient by taking the
patient's blood pressure, pulse rate, etc. Often referred to as the
patient's "vital signs". The patient's signs may be noted in a
patient that has no symptoms of a particular condition.



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Signs and Symptoms

Signs and symptoms are diagnostic "tools" which help the assessor
determine the condition of the patient.

The On-Line Medical Dictionary defines them as: "Objective evidence of
disease perceptible to the examining physician (sign) and subjective
evidence of disease perceived by the patient (symptom.)"

In layman's terms, "signs" are those "things" that we can see, and
"symptoms" are those "things" that the patient tells us. For example:
Pain would be a symptom (you can't see it, but the patient can tell you
that he/she has pain,) Flinching or "guarding" when touching a painful
area would be a sign that the patient is experiencing pain.

http://www.emergencymedicaled.com/Definitions/Signs%20and%20Symptoms.htm
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You should tell us, then, what type of understanding you are looking
for. If you want the definition as presented in medical texts, that's
one thing. If you want the definition as used in bedside talk by
doctors, that's something else.

The doctor, speaking to his colleagues on rounds, would say "Her
symptoms are..." and then describe what he has noted by examination
and interview. If he says "Her signs are...", he will follow that
with her vital signs of temperature, heart rate, blood pressure, etc.

A sign may be part of the symptoms. High temperature may be a symptom
of a condition.


Not according to the above definition. It would be a sign affirming a
patient's symptom (perhaps feeling hot).

The above is the definition I was taught, c1978.

If completely healthy, I have no symptoms. I always have signs.

What is an "offsider"?


As Laura said below, it means a kind of sidekick or second fiddle.

I don't watch "House" because I find the lead character to be
annoying. However, in most medical shows, it is often the "second
fiddle" that is recounting the signs and symptoms. Part of the
routine of "rounds" has the lesser doctors presenting with the
teaching doctor hanging back to see if the lesser doctors have
correctly summarized the patient's condition. It's a form of test.

I don't know if this is really done since I've never been a patient in
a teaching hospital where phalanxes of medicos troop into a room and
discuss the patient as if the patient is not there or at least not to
be concerned with the recounting of signs and symptoms.

I have only been a patient of private physicians who look at the
chart, poke and prod, and make small noises that alarm me. The doctor
then says "I'm going to try..." which always makes me think that he
hasn't the slightest idea of what to do, but he's going to order some
regime that he's heard may work for conditions roughly similar to
mine.


Yes, the doctor is trying not to be arrogant, but rather, trying to
allow a fallback position, which is probably honest but not so
reassuring.

TOF

.

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