Re: Too Much Consensus in the UK?

On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 23:53:40 +0000 (UTC), Salvatore Volatile
<me@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrought:

HVS wrote:
So we've established -- within this sample -- that there's
heterogeneity of opinion from the US sample, and homogeneity --
indeed, so far, unanimity -- from the UK sample.
[...]
Doesn't that suggest to you that there's some sort of culturally-
based difference involved?

If the heterogeneity/homogeneity difference in the two samples
isn't cultural, what the hell is it?

Maybe you're on to something (= LatvE "onto something"). But I'd look at
it another way. I get the general sense from the UK posters here
(including some who are converts) that there is widespread consensus
*generally* in the UK on *everything* -- food, art, politics, points of
etiquette, English usage, music, attitudes towards religion, anything ...
to a degree that would be unthinkable in the US at any stage of its
modern history since the early postwar era. And I say that as someone
who has occasionally complained about a resurgence in conformism in the
US in recent times. So, as to the UK, is this simply to be expected
because it's a smaller or more socially cohesive country or something?

I know everyone's unique and all, but, since we're talking about AUE as
evidence of national culturala differences, I do notice that when
American AUE posters interact, there's sometimes this practice of verbal
sparring or challenging or defiance that takes on various forms. That
Bavarian-American Dr. Aman is but one example. Think of Sparky. Think
of Coop. Think of me responding to Coop. Think of Arjay's engagement of
Sparky. Think of Sparky's reactions to Arjay. Think of Franke in
every one of his postings. Think of Truly! Think of Tootsie Conlon, who
(in some ways like Bavarian-American Rey) bravely defies established
opinion on all manner of subjects.

Where are the British equivalents of these (very different) kinds of
personalities? I know there's lots of personality differences among the
BrE posters, but you never seem to disagree with one another about
*anything*. Instead, what I see is a lot of celebration of shared
cultural experiences and in-jokes, and mutual or collective reinforcement
of shared cultural, social and political outlooks. And that's fine,
and, up to a point, enjoyable. I'm not trying to suggest that the content
of AUE ought to be debate or argument or verbal aggression anything like
that; I don't especially like that myself, even when I engage in it too.
Heck, one thing that makes this newsgroup better than so many others is
that it doesn't have too much of that. But this seems to be the key
difference between American and British posters that I see. The British
AUE posters show cultural solidarity and extremeness of pleasantness.
Not the worst things, but they *might* point to some problems in UK culture,
might they not? Where are the UK dissenters and malcontents?

(Yeah, okay, Councillor Huntbach when he's a Catholic, and Doc Robin when
he used to be cross are two counterexamples. But I think my general
point is still valid.)

I think you're not wrong.

This week's ping-pong with Matthew over the Catholic Church is
probably the first time I've engaged in lengthy sparring with another
Brit in AUE. But by Day 2 I found myself looking for cracks in not his
but my own argument in the hope of finding some point of consensus
where I could say "Agreed, then" and let it drop (which happened
yesterday). When sparring with Sparky or, back in the day, Coop or
any other American, though, the dynamics are quite different -- I
usually perceive my sparring partner entrenching himself in his
position until I just let it drop, not because there's nothing left to
argue about but because we're even farther apart than when we began.
The tone escalates more quickly with Americans, too, I've noticed.

But in general I agree with you about the "let's all try to get along"
attitude of the Brit posters here. Yes, I've disagreed with quite a
few Brit posters here at various times, but the ensuing argument has
never been anything like as lengthy or heated as equivalent
disagreements with Americans often turn out to be.

This could be another manifestation of two things that we've mentioned
before. First, the greater readiness of many Americans to take
personal offence at any disagreement with their points of view, and,
second, the greater tendency of American culture to polarise
everything into a kind of general duality or Yinyanginess [TM] --
Coke/Pepsi, PC/Mac/, Coulter/Franken, red state/blue state, good
cop/bad cop, "pro-choice"/"pro-life"...even CIC/CINC.

We're different. Marmite is our way, our truth and our life.

--
THE
.

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