Re: pre-english... for adult students of english as a foreign language

Do you get a lot of business off USENET postings?

..i'm not really looking for business right now
..i'm still in a development mode
..right now i'm looking for test students who will actually
put in the time



Is there an online demo?

..if i accept a student for a trial, i send him/her a
folder-full of files: an instruction *** (PDF);
several hundred short MP3 snippets of speech-like
sounds; and corresponding answer sheets (PDFs)



.i left academe in the eighties
.it had begun to interfere with my education

It does that. You can learn a lot by talking to people on buses.

.. yes... especially about human psychopathology




.i knew exactly which aspects of language i was
interested in exploring, but, my ideas were too
"interdisciplinary" (even in that time) for any
graduate schools within my reach

Talk to me about it. You try doing a combined studies degree in Drama,
Geography and the History of Ideas.

..well i tried to do epistemology, sociology, clinical psychology,
linguistics and history of philosophy
..they were not impressed... or even amused



.at the following link, see a bibliography, documenting
some of the influences on my thinking after leaving
the university

http://www.gendo.net/gendo/bib.html
de Bono and his 'Lateral Thinking' is pretty much discredited. The
consensus is that he claims to have invented something everybody does
all the time anyway.

..i think the consensus is wrong here
..yes, everyone KNOWS ABOUT the strategies he proposes, and
agrees that they are good ideas... but few people
actually employ them
..most adults make up their mind about a subject in the first
few seconds, and then use whatever linguistic skills they
have to justify their preconceived notions
..after puberty, few people dramatically alter their basic
language machine programming
..that's why he has placed an emphasis on training children...
so that it becomes second nature, automatic




Well, why even mention an age? How about:

. learning language is part of growing up
. children learn to speak their mother language over a period of years
. we can help you to learn a new language in the way children learn
. you can do it in only 100 to 300 hours of focused work
. we help you learn to hear the sounds of english in the way a child
does

..better thanks
..but not the same way children learn
..i help students achieve the same competence a child achieves...
an ability to distinguish accurately the sounds of english
..the method has almost nothing in common with the way a child
achieves competence



That means it has
to be in clear, standard English. With capital letters and full-stops,
know what I mean?

clear... absolutely
the rest... maybe... maybe not


.i'd be happy to talk with you about any of this
.please join me at 1222gendo on gizmo

Actually, I might one day, especially if you start offering Skype as
well...

..i skype too, although i'm not familiar with conferencing
procedures there
..but, you and i could talk using skype
..if you're interested, email me and we'll arrange a time
that is more convenient for you




I have a friend in Hamburg who's working on a similar idea. I don't
see it myself, but he's very keen.

?where can i learn more about your friend's work




.students spend at least 10 hours of personal practice for
every hour of instructor time

Cheap, too. This is why W*** S***** have schools in Shanghai with
acres of PC's and hardly any teachers.

..yes, this particular aspect of language learning
is almost ideally suited for computer-based
instruction
..i makes for a very efficient use of instructors'
time
..but then, this is a very limited subject
..that's why i call it "pre-english"




.once they can hear accurately, they can begin
to correct their own speaking without my
assistance

I still don't understand 'hear accurately'. So what do they do,
differentiate minimal pairs? What are they actually transcribing?

..most of my students have been from korea
..minimal pairs is part of the problem
..they can't hear the difference between "been" and "bean",
or "bed" and "bad"
..they also have big problems distinguishing between P, B, F and V
..they simply do not hear what a native speaker hears
..they hear with korean ears... a korean filtering system
developed during childhood
..they need to develop a new filtering system... american ears




In Morroco? How do the results for your China-based Chinese student
compare with the one in Canada?

..i'm just getting started
..no results yet



The problem with your insisting that mainstream writing on ELT,
Linguistics, Second Language Acquisition etc etc etc has nothing to
teach you, is that you're going to be forever reinventing the wheel.

..i never suggested such a thing
..i crave good ideas from any source whatever
..i will be exploring your suggested readings of Swan/Smith
and Krashen/Tyrell... thanks



I've not flamed you, Heron, I've taken the trouble to engage with what
you posted.

..that's right... you haven't
..thank you
..that's why i've taken the time to answer



I don't thing nature can, or should be, commanded.

.. i think that's what he was saying...
at least that's how i interpret it



. have a nice day

Thank You,

Heron

unDO email address
___
Nature, heron stone
to be commanded, http://www.gendo.net
must be obeyed. mailto:heronDO@xxxxxxxxx
.

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