Re: usage question re: "to obsess"


Iskandar Baharuddin wrote:
On 28 Feb 2006 18:35:41 -0800, "Raymond S. Wise" <mplsray@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:


Sandman wrote:
The struggle to cover up the absence of a non-gender-specific
but non-neuter third person pronoun fills me with disgust

Perhaps if one listens to enough bad English one becomes inured to it.
I hope so, because such usage of "they" and "their" jars my nerves.

I am with you there. Similarly, if a large enough fraction of the
population misuses words/phrases, the misuses become acceptable, and
therefore allowable uses (examples that come to mind are the alternate
pronunciations of often and arctic). Why have rules if you can just
sort of "flood" them with errors until the errors are alright? Yes, I
realize that language is an evolving being, but I tend to stay on the
traditional side of things (established usages, King James Version of
the bible, etc.).

B


The editors of the King James (Authorized) Version arguably "broke the
rules" when they used obsolescent forms instead of something closer to
the English then used by educated writers. But it could be argued that
it was not until a century or two later when one had rules about
written English which differed considerably from the actual usage of
educated writers (the so-called "traditional grammar"). In
Shakespeare's time, most disputes about usage involved vocabulary,
mainly questions of whether a particular word from a foreign source was
acceptable to use in English.

I recently came upon an example of the generic "they" (or "their," to
be precise) which I posted about previously in the Usenet newsgroup
fr.lettres.langue.anglaise . The following is from *French Inside Out*
by Henriette Walter, translated into English by Peter Fawcett from the
original *Le français dans tous les sens.* From the section
"Acknowledgements":

"In its present form [this book] owes its originality to my two
children: to my son who played a decisive part in the very conception
of the work, and to my daughter who contributed constantly to its
fulfilment. Each in their own way helped me to find the right language
for communicating in a style more appropriate to the general public, a
language that is both more pedagogical and less academic."

Question: Why not "Both in their own way..."?

It occurred to me that both the generic "his" and the "his or her"
alternative would sound awkward if used instead of the generic "their."

Well, just about anything is better than "his/her".

I have to wonder why there is so much objection to "themself." If
"them" is used singularly, under what reasoning is it more
objectionable to use the singular "self" with "them"?

Possibly because it makes the write appear semi-literate?


The singular "they" might be considered an equally objectionable usage.
But when the subject of the singular "they" comes up in discussions
such as this one, often someone will single out "themself" as being
deserving of even *more* disdain. That's what I find so puzzling. What
is it about "themself" that makes it more objectionable than the
singular "they"?


--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA

E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Another stupid singular "their"
    ... Sure there is: English usage through history. ... The cited use of singular they is a good example of the historical ... language as AOL subscribers are about computers and the Internet. ... ready to accept stupidity and cacaphony as normal and even good usage. ...
    (alt.usage.english)
  • Re: Who, Their, His, Her
    ... Now you are comparing those who use language differently than you ... the rest are lazy or insane. ... sound English usage commonly being ... there is no such thing as "correct English". ...
    (alt.usage.english)
  • Re: Who, Their, His, Her
    ... As I have many times remarked, most serious usage manuals are ... is an ardent supporter of the singular "they", but I don't reckon we can ... of thoughtful, literate readers, and I ... English words and expressions that are singular in form but felt to be ...
    (alt.usage.english)
  • Re: Survival langauge
    ... > people who can write the language sufficient to their ... English speaking population is declining in numbers and along with this, ... decreasing usage of English. ... Purl Gurl - Queen of Yo' Waddup ...
    (alt.usage.english)
  • Re: Who, Their, His, Her
    ... a usage is common, it is obviously acceptable to many, for at least some ... Now you are comparing those who use language differently than you ... sound English usage commonly being closely tied to presumed ... There are two example logical systems, ...
    (alt.usage.english)