Re: stand apart

Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:

Murray Arnow writes:
Rey wrote:
Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
Reinhold (Rey) Aman writes:
Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:

[...]

for those in mourning or observing yarzheit),

Real Yiddish (transliterated): yortsayt.

That's the way it's pronounced, but it's usually spelled
"yarzheit" in English.

Sorry, I don't think so. The only correct YIVO spelling is
_yortsayt_. Any other popular and common spelling, such as yours,
is the illiterate German-English-Yiddish mishmash I've been
lambasting for decades.

Sure, but it's also standard English.

If "Yahrzeit" is the standard English word, how come the Merriam-Webster
Online Dictionary spells it the German way, "jahrzeit"? (I haven't
checked other dictionaries.)

The OED dates it (correctly spelled) to 1852, which I believe
is a bit before YIVO standardized their transliteration.

I hesitated correcting your _yarzheit_ because I knew it would just lead
to an endless "yes, but" back-and-forth. This is my final contribution
to this topic. We're just talking past each other.

At what time YIVO standardized the transliteration of _yortsayt_ is
irrelevant. There are three languages involved: English, Yiddish, and
Yinglish. I presented the Yiddish spelling _yortsayt_ and the butchered
spellings of _Yahrzeit_ by English-speaking Jews; you consider
_Yahrzeit_ standard English; I consider it Yinglish, à la _schmatteh_
and _shiksah_.

I must agree with Evan. "Yahrzeit" is the common spelling.

Nota bene: Evan spelled it _yarzheit_, which pressed one of my _Knöpfe_.

Every Yahrzeit notice I've seen since childhood used this spelling.

I doubt that. You have been paying attention to the spelling of
_Yahrzeit_ for the past sixty-odd years? Sure. You've never seen
_Jahrzeit_, the Rosten-Yiddish _Yortzeit_ or worse? Sure. I have been
observing the various misspellings of this word for at least 30 years.

Whether you like it or not, Rey, it is the correct spelling.

The spelling of _Yahrzeit_ in *English* texts is the standard, common,
and preferred one; I have lambasted the mutations & mutilations of this
word and shown examples from Leo Rosten and Rabbi Jacobs (snipped and
ignored by you and Evan).

This word is spelled _Jahrzeit_ by Jews in Germany, Austria and
Switzerland, and _jarcait_ by Jews in Poland, using the orthography of
their German and Polish languages, respectively. It's only the
*English-speaking* Jews & goyim who don't know how to spell it, because
they mix up the orthographies of English (-tsite), German (-zeit) and
Yiddish (-tsayt), all pronounced alike.

As an afterthought, I Googled "Jahrzeit" and "jarcait." You'll find
proof of what I'm saying (I *bolded* the words):

GERMAN:
*Jahrzeit* Nach jüdischer Tradition wird eines nahen Toten an seinem
Todestag (nach hebräischem Kalenderdatum), der "Jahrzeit", gedacht....

POLISH:
Groby odwiedzano w rocznice smierci (*jarcait*), w rocznice zburzenia
Jerozolimy i przed swietem Rosz ha-Szana....
[Note also how Polish Jews write "Rosh Hashana"]

ENGLISH: (From <http://www.aish.com/kaddish/why_kaddish.asp>:
Beyond this, Kaddish is recited every year on the day of the
*Yahrtzeit* (Hebrew anniversary of death).
[This outfit runs a Google ad and there spells it *Yarzheit*!]

I have not seen all of the following 100+ combinations, but they exist,
no doubt. Use any combination of words from column A and column B and
you've got the mishmash I'm bitching about:

Column A Column B
---------------------
Jar- -tsait
Jahr- -tsayt
Jor- -tzait
Johr- -tzayt
Jore- -tseit
Yar- -tzeit
Yahr- -tsite
Yor- -tzite
Yohr- -zait
Yore- -zayt
-zeit

I'll agree with Murray here, and not Evan. I don't know how
his "h" got moved like that.

Perhaps you got it from the <aish.com> ad above?

The OED quotations are

1852 Yahrzeit
1876 yore-zeit
1881 Jahrzeit
1917 Yahrzeit
1964 yahrzeit
1971 yortzeit

I'm certain that the _OED_ has only a fraction of the 100+ variants.

~~~ Rey ~~~
über und aus
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Digraphs in old Czech spelling
    ... the 19th century Polish spelled it that way and that English ... some currency in German. ... followed the old czech spelling. ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Digraphs in old Czech spelling
    ... the 19th century Polish spelled it that way and that English ... some currency in German. ... followed the old czech spelling. ... Bohemia is the western part of Czech country. ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: stand apart
    ... If "Yahrzeit" is the standard English word, ... Unabridged for either spelling. ... German and Polish languages, respectively. ...
    (alt.usage.english)
  • Re: Wrong language in grammar suggestions
    ... it was English and nothing else choosen. ... opened a document in German. ... For more on setting language options in Word, ... grammar and spelling in an English document that I had written. ...
    (microsoft.public.word.docmanagement)
  • We need Language Exchange Partners, we can teach you German
    ... We can teach you German in exchange. ... Lorraine Mehlhorn, 14 years old, Germany ... I want to learn: English ... Ich studiere Englisch und Italienisch auf einer Uni. ...
    (soc.culture.austria)