More Valentinian "aw" "ah" nonsense [was: Re: "walk" or "wuck" or "wahk" - was American-o]
- From: Bob Cunningham <exw6sxq@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 00:59:02 GMT
On Wed, 1 Feb 2006 17:03:55 +0000 (UTC), R J Valentine
<rj@xxxxxxxxxxxx> said:
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:08:16 GMT Bob Cunningham <exw6sxq@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
} On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 10:15:17 -0800, Evan Kirshenbaum
} <kirshenbaum@xxxxxxxxxx> said:
}> "CIC" dialects, which don't distinguish between /O/ and /A/
} Taken at face value, that makes me definitely not a "CIC"
} speaker, because I most certainly distinguish between
} "born" ([bO:rn]) and "barn" ([bA:rn]).
The following quoted paragraph is mostly garbage, but I'm
leaving it in for the benefit of knowledgeable people who
may want something to laugh at:
I agree with Mr. Cunningham here (and he's right, to boot). The thing is,
is that it's not so much that he doesn't distinguish between [O] and [A]
as that he doesn't distinguish between "aw" (where the canonical "aw" is
half way (if you catch my drift) between [O] and [A] (and is hereby and
elsewhere defined in erk-ASCII-IPA [= SparkE "KAI" {= Gk "&"}] as [A+])
and the canonical "ah" is half way (IYCMD) between [A] and [a] (AIHAEDI
erk-ASCII-IPA as [a+] (though some [somewhat inconsistently, in view of
the other vowel case pairings] designate it (ObYngKira: "ah") as [A"]))
and "ah", as he clearly states here:
Valentine has no way to know what sounds I can or cannot
distinguish. Anyway, "aw" and "ah" have no useful meaning
with reference to phonetics.
} I believe I use the same vowel in "cot" and "caught", but
} clearly not in "cart" and "court". (I use the same vowel in
} "cot", "caught" and "cart".)
[...]
his [...] recording of "People call me Bob", wherein he executes a model "aw" in "call" and a model "ah" in "Bob".
That wasn't my normal pronunciation of "Bob". I don't know
what induced me to say it that way. I normally use [A] in
both "call" and "Bob". And if "aw" and "ah" mean anything
at all with reference to phonetics, they refer to the
symbols dictionaries use for the pronunciation of those two
words, which are [A] for "ah" and [O] for "aw".
[O] is mostly a British noise,
That's quite false. [O] is the vowel that's commonly spoken
by Americans in words like "sport" and "court". And,
according to American dictionaries, it's the vowel in words
like "saw" and "awful". That's also the pronunciation I've
heard for myself in the speech of certain New Jersey people.
It's very much an American sound.
(There are speakers who use [o] (the monophthongalized vowel
of "boat") in sport. Richard Fontana was one of them in one
of his sound files I analyzed.)
[...] [A] can [...]be all that CIC speakers have to work with [...].
About "all that CIC speakers have to work with", I've said
it before and I'll say it again: I can readily hear the
difference when New Jersey people say "caught" and "cot", or
"fort" and "fart", and I can readily pronounce "caught" and
"cot" the way Easterners do it, but I have no desire to do
so, because I don't want people to think I'm talking funny.
I grow quite weary of people like Valentine and Mr Fontana
implying that I'm unable to distinguish or pronounce the
funny vowels Easterners use.
.
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