Re: vowel troubles

Alexei A. Frounze wrote:

"Rich Wales" <richw@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:20051226185137.E42856.richw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Alexei A. Frounze wrote:

  > the variety of vowel flavors, their sounds. I mean, again,
  > it seems like there're a number of similar vowel sounds in
  > English yet they're different and sometimes they can make
  > quite a difference . . . .

A major problem which most adult learners of a second language face
is difficulty in properly hearing and producing the sounds of the
new language.  The learner has subconsciously become so used to the
sound system of his native language that everything he hears passes
through a mental filter and is categorized according to the rules
of his native sound system before he is even aware of it.

This would explain why Alexei perceives that pairs of words like
robber/rubber, man/men, caught/cut, and deed/did contain "almost
the same vowel sound" -- whereas most native speakers of American
English would insist the vowels in each of these pairs are totally
different.  In effect, when Alexei hears English sounds, his brain
processes and maps those sounds according to the (very different)
phonetic rules of Russian.  This process is so subconscious and
automatic that the listener is generally unaware of it and unable
to override it without considerable conscious effort (if even then).

This same problem would lead me to question, BTW, whether simply
spending a lot of time listening to native speakers can suffice to
teach correct pronunciation to most second-language learners.  The
average learner, working by himself, is simply not going to be able
to NOTICE the very distinctions which he needs to master in order
to understand and speak the new language well.


True. I don't know how much attention is paid to hearing and repeating in the foreign language classes at school, but that's something a little child normally does at home. He would often repeat after his parents exactly what they say over and over agian. We don't seem to do that when we're grown ups. We either think it's too funny to do or just think it's too unimportant until some day we get into a situation where it matters or someone tells us so. But yes, I would agree on hearing impairments and memory problems. My grandma (she's over 80) would never learn a new word or pill name, she would always come up with something sounding similarly, something she knows, but not the word it must be.

Actually, there's another interesting thing. I attribute it to lack of hearing experience and to a lesser degree to the vocabulary size. It's hard to determine what somebody says if there's some background noise present or another parallel speech is going on or the sounds are distorted due to acting. Can anything be done with this? Is it possible to train somehow against reduced sound quality or is it completely lost because all those sound/word combinations should've been learned for a very long time, e.g. since childhood?

I have always felt that language laboratories were a waste of space and money, but those that are equipped for the students to record their voices immediately next to a native speaker's recording, do help overcome this problem. Tape recordings seem to emphasise pronunciation differences.

--
Rob Bannister
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: How do you pronounce "HLL"
    ... > sound at the beginning is a vowel. ... it's solely a "pronounciation thing" to use ... language, there are no "pauses" in spoken language, in fact - except for ... English) accent speaking it...definitely problematic is you've got the ...
    (alt.lang.asm)
  • Re: vowel troubles
    ... > it seems like there're a number of similar vowel sounds in> English yet they're different and sometimes they can make ... A major problem which most adult learners of a second language face ... English would insist the vowels in each of these pairs are totally ... spending a lot of time listening to native speakers can suffice to ...
    (alt.usage.english)
  • Re: count2.asm
    ... > counting 'y's as either vowels or consonants - you've removed it from ... different way...it is used and considered to be a consonant in English, ... despite the fact that it's actual sound is really a vowel sound... ... [This facet of the English language proves a nightmare when playing the ...
    (alt.lang.asm)
  • Re: Is "oo" a diphthong?
    ... glides to an unrounded front vowel (i.e., ... > is that they both, to my English ear, sound like the ... reason why most people who try to learn another language as adults ... versions of the sound in question even exist, ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Leodhasach & Hearasch - Gaelic help please
    ... course our own traditional language is even more neglected than Gaelic is. ... who speak English soon get the gist of it. ... is someone who truly appreciates Scottish culture in that you won't find ...
    (soc.culture.scottish)