Re: Flashman and the Redskins

Murray Arnow wrote:

> Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:

> >While part of me would like to believe this, I can't seem to get past
> >the fact that frequent warfare (or peace through subjugation) seems to
> >have been the norm for pre-Columbian American societies that left
> >written records and for remote societies first encountered by
> >anthropologists. It seems a bit hard to swallow that on this
> >continent alone things have been peaceful for centuries--taken solely
> >on the basis of the oral histories of the groups involved. And that
> >only when savage Europeans came did the Indians quickly learn to
> >become savage in response.

> A major reason for Aztecs warring on their neighbors was to provide fodder for
> their ritual sacrifices. The taking of slaves and kidnapping were well known
> pre-Columbian practices. Just like people everywhere, Indians of different
> cultures had trouble co-existing peacefully with their neighbors. Cultures and
> people thrived and disappeared in pre-Columbian America. We may never know
> their complete history, but it is likely that the disappearances weren't all
> due to acts of nature.

I take pride in being objective, which is always logical.

History reflects acts of "savagery" between all peoples, all across our
world, and throughout history. American Indians are not an exception.

There noteworthy exceptions during select time periods. While attending
my American Indian classes, I gave special attention to California Indians.
For many centuries, maybe a thousand years or more, California Indians
were very peaceful and enjoyed a broad economic system, complete
with "coins" which were sand dollar like sea shells.

Their economy was based on salmon and "redwood forest" products up north,
obsidian blades and tools in the east, reed baskets around the Colorado
river, and dried fish, sea shell beads from the west coast. Trade was so
robust many trails, worn by foot traffic, still exist today. Indian "coins"
are to be found all along those trails.

Contrasting, over in the southwest, Arizona, New Mexico and northward
into Nevada, Colorado and across the high plains, competition between
tribes was fierce, including some war like behavior to maintain boundaries.

Deciding factors of peaceful or war like here in the west, is climate and
terrain, more simply, physical geography. In California, survival needs
are abundant. For the deserts and high plains, survival needs are sparse.

For these case examples, peace or war, both are highly effected by
environmental conditions. Given a choice, I believe most "native"
peoples of antiquity, would be peaceful.

My "natives" throughout references "Indian" like peoples.

For Aztecs and similar cultures, I watched a series of documentaries
which propose those peoples did not vanish, nor did disease take them.
Simple changes in environment, over centuries, reduced their populations
to below reproductive viability.

Those programs presented well developed extensive studies showing
two major factors. One is over-use of land for agriculture, which we do
witness today, and the other, a decrease in average rainfall. Because
of crop failures and lack of seasonal rains, peoples chased after best
conditions and eventually became so dispersed, population count fell
to levels of such, death rate overtook birth rate; tribes became so small
they no longer enjoyed a needed labor force to support more than just
tiny family units.

Physical geography, climate, terrain, weather patterns and such, do
play an important role in peoples being peaceful, in peoples being
war like, and clearly in simple survival.

I would propose much, not all, but much "savagery" can be linked
to physical geography and an abundance of or lack of survival needs.

This notion rather contrasts Old World behavior such as wars
of conquest based upon religion, taxes, power and all those notions
which make our world what it is today.

I would propose "native" peoples scattered around our world are
basically peaceful and only effecting war like behavior to survive,
and would propose Old World peoples are war like for philosophical
or egotistical reasons.

I would also propose those notions are evidenced by language. Most
of our words are rooted in the Bible, and rooted in authority like
control of peoples.

Opposing, many, if not most "native" cultures do not have written
languages and are mostly "story telling" based cultures which clearly
lack words based upon the Bible, lack words based upon authority
based regional power.

Seems physical geography controls level of peaceful behavior or not,
and examination of language can yield direct hints of a peoples'
traditional behaviors; words tell a story of war and peace.

There is no doubt physical geography is a major factor in development
of languages. There is no doubt select languages will also reflect
a peaceful culture, or an aggressive culture, at least there is no
doubt in my personal perspective.

Purl Gurl
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Green Light Unstopable As Defined Under Safety Rules And EU4 Driving Re: Take (mk ultra nr 1) to
    ... the main population (toward atempted civil war). ... So due to all your systems constrains (especialy odessa) we will do ... Conclusiun it all continues as defined Green light peoples out to the ... and flush the streets till full system change achive to a real ...
    (soc.culture.usa)
  • Re: Atlantis = The Sea People?
    ... there was in fact a confederation of maritime peoples around the 1230-1180 period which did, in fact, assail Egypt -- placing it in an era of turmoil -- brought down the Hittite Empire and also fought alongside the Dorians who were the agents of the demise of Mycenaean Greece. ... in Plato with that provided in the Medinet Habu. ... than the forefather of the Iron Age; whereas the former is listed alongside the various peoples above, ... events that the Atlantis legend was based on and that the war described ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: 11 Things I Will Serve My Best Never to Put In A Fantasy/SF Novel...
    ... those cultures will have its own mores... ... other indigenous peoples around the world. ... A better comparison might be pre-columbian America vs Europe. ... waves of epidemics wiped out ...
    (rec.arts.sf.composition)
  • Re: Atlantis = The Sea People?
    ... are linked to a presumed early Iron Age or late Bronze Age Tartessos. ... from a wide range of peoples. ... sources (the Chapter 4 account being associated with the Priestly ... events that the Atlantis legend was based on and that the war described ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Atlantis = The Sea People?
    ... > are linked to a presumed early Iron Age or late Bronze Age Tartessos. ... > from a wide range of peoples. ... > sources (the Chapter 4 account being associated with the Priestly ... > events that the Atlantis legend was based on and that the war described ...
    (sci.archaeology)