Re: A call for a moderated AUE (was: Re: OT Pounds)

On 27 Jul 2005, the Omrud posted thus:

> I may, or may not, be going to Boston and Seattle next week. It's
> still not decided.

I want your life.

But back to topic at hand.

The creation of misc.writing.screenplays.moderated was one of the
most unpleasant experiences of my life, and I certainly wouldn't wish
it on this newsgroup. And frankly, I don't see why AUE.moderated is
needed. I haven't visited AEU in a some time, but I recall it being
more on-topic than AUE and less contention since Mark Wallace left.
Couldn't AEU serve the purpose of a moderated newsgroup?

I don't know how one goes about creating an alt newsgroup, but if one
wishes to create a newsgroup in the Big 8 hierarchy, there's a
clearly defined process to be followed, culminating in a nonsecret
ballot email vote.

This is what it was like for Misc.Writing.Screenplays.

** The first line of attack **

We explained that Jai had more or less taken over our newsgroup,
rendering it pretty much unnavigable to newcomers, that new
readership had been declining significantly, to the point where it
threatened the viability of the only group in all of Usenet related
to screenwriting, and that we felt a moderated newsgroup whose sole
mission was the elimination of crossposts would solve this problem.

We were told that MWS regulars had not made any effort to deal with
Jai using accepted practices for dealing with trolls, i.e., kill-
files, not responding to his posts, etc.

Um, yes, we have.

Well, I don't see it happening.

Well, you've been reading the newsgroup for two weeks. We've been
dealing with this problem for three years. The regulars have him
kill-filed. They don't see his posts anymore, nor do they respond to
him.

Well, then kill-files work. You don't need a moderated newsgroup.

Except Jai has overrun the newsgroup.

One troll is not a good reason to start a new moderated newsgroup.
You have kill-files to deal with that.

But kill-files work only for Jai. He crossposts his posts to a half
dozen newsgroups, the responses come from everywhere, and it's
impossible to deal with the onslaught of off-topic posts using kill-
files.

The accepted practices work. Time has proven that.

Excuse me, but this is what our newsgroup looks like now:

http://usa1776.com/images/1.jpg
http://usa1776.com/images/2.jpg
http://usa1776.com/images/3.jpg
[Links still work.]

This is what newcomers see when they log on for the first time. It's
difficult to see that there's still a viable screenwriting newsgroup
there. We no longer attract new people to the newsgroup.

Yeah, but how would those people even find the new moderated group???

Um... the same way newcomers find the current group?

And on and on and on it went. People who had never before stepped
foot in MWS, arguing with us about our situation.

** The second line of attack **

You're fascists and Nazis. You'll start censoring posts you don't
like.

No, we won't, because the moderation will be performed by the robo-
moderater which will be programmed only to eliminate crossposted
articles.

You say that now, but you'll start censoring. It *will* happen. It
always does. Power corrupts.

But that kind of moderation is not what people are voting for. We're
voting only for robo-moderation.

Doesn't matter. Once the moderators are given the power, they'll own
that newsgroup. It *will* happen. You're fascists and Nazis.
You'll start censoring posts you don't like.

You're fascists and Nazis. You'll start censoring posts you don't
like.

You're fascists and Nazis. You'll start censoring posts you don't
like.

You're fascists and Nazis. You'll start censoring posts you don't
like.

** The vote **

Time to vote. It's done by email ballot, and the email addresses of
all the voters are published.

Anyone can vote including people who have never read your newsgroup
and have no interest in it. There are people who routinely vote No
just on principle. They don't believe in moderation for any reason.

MWSM passes. Not one MWS regular votes against it.

A group comes forward with claims that they forged Yes votes and that
MWSM really didn't pass. They try to make a game out of revealing
the forged votes. They will reveal the names of the forged Yes votes
if we correctly answer a film-related question. They will reveal the
names in three batches.

The supposed forgers are largely ignored, and Russ, the only guy with
the power to create or not create a new newsgroup (the vote is really
just a gauge for Russ to see if the new newsgroup will be viable),
creates the moderated newsgroup anyway.

After a few months of growing pains,
Misc.Writing.Screenplays.Moderated is not just up and running. It's
*thriving*.

Misc.Writing.Screenpays as a screenwriting newsgroup is moribund.
It's all Jai, all the time. Some MWS regulars still monitor it to
answer questions, but their primary purpose is to let newcomers know
that the party's been moved to MWSM.

When is comes to successful moderated newsgroups, MWSM is probably
one of the exceptions. Consider Misc.Writing and
Misc.Writing.Moderated. I downloaded those two groups. Misc.Writing
has 100,017 posts to Misc.Writing.Moderated's 1,503, whereas MWSM is
already up to 11,085 posts in only six months.

I think the creation of a moderated English usage group would be a
lot of hard work for a few people, a miserable experience for most
the newsgroup, and won't get you the results you want.

YMMV.

(Gosh, I hope this post was well written enough for Murray...)

--
Dena Jo

Email goes to denajo2 at the dot com variation of the Yahoo domain.

Plonk the bastards: http://www.panix.com/~mwsm/trolls.html
.