Re: My opinion on LCD vs Plasma Flat Screen HDTVs.... Consumer's Report Magazine was right
- From: ninphan <sjburke73@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 11:01:50 -0800 (PST)
On Dec 14, 10:30 am, Flasherly <gjerr...@xxxxxx> wrote:
On Dec 14, 10:08 am, ninphan <sjburk...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Dec 13, 10:14 pm, "Mark A" <nob...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"Cbeyond" <NoSpam...@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:lhp3m399p4gt9qk57l29vrncfffinlsii9@xxxxxxxxxx
Just a brief note to those people thinking about buying a big flat
screen HDTV. I have a 47" Westinghouse 1080p and a Panasonic 42"
1080p Plasma which I bought mainly after reading last month's
Consumer Reports review of HDTVS. I like both of them.
The Westinghouse LCD seems sharper, but the black levels (or
contrast ratio)are far inferior to the Panny Plasma, you can spot
the difference immediately on any signal.
I think Plasma is the way to go for the best overall picture quality.
Why 1080p?, Well if you are going to spend a that much money for
HDTV, go all the way. You wouldn't buy a car without cruise control
or air conditioning, would you? It isnt that much more money and
you will see a big difference if you connect a PC to the HDTV.
Higher resolution wins big with a PC desktop display. Set the screen
saver to 1-5 minutes when using a Plasma screen. I guess burn in
would be more of a problem with the Plasma. I do think the
Westinghouse LCD is more friendy to a PC and the desktop fills the
whole screen. The LCD just has a different look to it. It needs
carefull color control setting adjustments. Both sets show a better
picture in a darken room. As I said, I like them both, the Panny
Plasma has a much better picture contrast and looks fab. It does
have 4 fans on the top back but they are whisper quiet. I use
a PC dvd and hard drive videos, the Westy LCD has a very good
picture. This is just my opinion, Read the CR magazine article.
Certainly, Plasma's have an advantage in terms of black level compared to an
LCD, but using a Westinghouse LCD as the overall benchmark for comparing LCD
vs. Plasma is ridiculous. The people at CR are idiots. Westinghouse is junk
made in China by third rate contract manufacturing companies with the
Westinghouse name on it. Panasonic owns their own factories and the design
there own sets.
If you compare a Sony XBR 4 (LCD) to your Panasonic Plasma, I think you
would see that an LCD's have made significant strides in terms of picture
quality when compared to plasma sets.
When you also consider that many people cannot (or don't want to) always
view their TV in a darkened room, then LCD can often offer a better overall
picture than plasma. But if you are going to do comparisons, don't compare a
junk set like Westinghouse with a name brand set like Panasonic.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Sure they have made significant strides, but when it comes to motion
resolution and picture accuracy, plasma leaves LCD in the dust.
With fast motion scenes the Panasonic and Pioneer plasmas are able to
resolve properly between 880 and 900 lines of a 1080p signal. LCD's,
with the exception of the new 81-series LED LCD from Samsung, average
600 lines of motion resolved, even the 120Hz sets. That's almost 50%
of the picture gone!
The 81-series LED, with Motion Plus set to the "on" position, measured
800 lines of motion resolution which is significatly higher than any
other LCD to date including the Sharp Aquos 92-series, Sony XBR4
series and other top name LCD's.
IN addition, most plasmas have enough output, over 54 lamberts for the
Panny in "torch" mode, that viewing in most circumstances will still
reveal the better picture quality.
If you were going to install a TV in your sunroom I'd go with LCD, but
otherwise for contrast, blacks and motion resolution, you just can't
beat plasma for the ultimate in picture quality.
Picture Quality Rivals Plasma Setshttp://news.yahoo.com/s/bw/20071214/bs_bw/dec2007tc20071213694252
Sony's high-end XBR models, which use the best glass panels available,
have consistently delivered stunning depths and accuracy of color in
reds and greens -- two colors consumers seem to respond to most. The
KDL-46XBR4 -- which lists at $3,300 but is available for hundreds less
-- ups the ante by offering black levels and contrast that begin to
rival those offered by some of the best plasma televisions, giving
Sony's set an edge over the latest LCDs we've reviewed from Sharp and
Samsung.
Good Blur Control and Navigation
To reduce motion blur on the screen, Sony refreshes the picture twice
as fast as the typical 60-Hz rate. I frequently suggest that users
turn off this increasingly common feature, as the extra processing can
actually introduce artifacts when you're not watching movies or
sports. But the Sony set does not give you that option. Instead, there
are "standard" and "high" settings. While it would be nice to be able
to turn off the 120-Hz refresh completely for typical TV viewing, the
standard mode delivered a smooth picture without artifacts, while high
did a good job of eliminating motion judder and blur in fast-action
scenes.
High-definition images on the native resolution of 1080p (full HD)
look simply stunning. When I watched 300 on an HD-DVD player, the set
replicated the gritty feel of a theater.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I prefer pressional tests to what Yahoo has to say as they're also
just reiterating what Sony has to say about it.
LCD's still cannot compete side by side with PIoneer and Panasonic
plasma sets when it comes to blacks and motion resolution. Because
they are backlit vs. plasma which controls each pixels light
individually, it's easy to understand.
The 120Hz refresh rate has helped for motion, yet the 81-series from
Samsung which has LED lighting instead of Cold Cathode Fluorescent
Lamps doesn't have 120Hz refresh rate, it has 60Hz - it beats out all
the 120Hz panels for motion resolution tests.
The advantage the 120Hz panels have though is that they eliminate
judder because HD DVD and Blu-ray present a 1080p24 source and 120Hz
performs 5:5 pulldown - a 60Hz set has to perform 3:2 pulldown which
is uneven, hence the judder.
Anyway from Gary Merson's review of the LED Samsung LCD:
"Samsung combines the local dimming feature with what it calls "Motion
Plus," a scanning technology that activates the horizontal rows of
LEDs progressively from top to bottom to dramatically decrease motion
blur in this 60Hz panel. With Motion Plus activated, the panel
measured a record-setting (for LCD) 800 lines of horizontal measured
resolution (using the "FPD Benchmark Software for Professional" 1080i
Blu-ray Test Disc), which is 33% greater motion resolution than that
of any other LCD panel tested to date including 120Hz models from
Sharp and Sony. That ranks the LN-T4081F near the best set ever
measured (900 lines, the soon to be reviewed Pioneer PDP-6010FD). With
Motion Plus in the "off" position, resolution dropped to 550 lines,
which is just short of the 600 lines of the best previously tested
60Hz LCD panels.
Black levels were lower than I was able to accurately measure. With a
blank screen, all LEDs are shut off, resulting in completely black
levels. White writing against a black background, produced a
considerably higher black level--visually higher than blacks on
Pioneer's Kuro Plasma displaying the same content"
And from Gary Merson's review of the Sony XBR4:
"The latest tests in the HDTV Guru's arsenal, static and motion
resolution measurements are derived from a new 1080i Blu-ray test disc
called "FPD Benchmark Software for (the) Professional." A frame called
a "Monoscope Test," consisting of four groupings of four non-parallel
black lines arrayed to form a wedge-shaped patterns (see photo below)
that appear at the top, sides and bottom of a center square. To test
resolution, you look at the bottom wedge. There are both stationary
and moving versions of the test.
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Exclusive: First Review of the Sony KDL-46XBR4
Sony's 46" KDL-46XBR4 LCDTV, one of 2007's most eagerly awaited HDTVs,
has finally arrived. It is Sony's first 120Hz LCDTV, with "Full HD"
1920 x 1080 resolution. Sony used to make early review samples
available to the press, but lately the company has been slow to
release hot products to reviewers. The HD Guru(tm) obtained his test
sample thanks to a local retailer's generosity. The KDL-46XBR4 retails
for $3599.99.
The 1080p XBR4 series (40", 46" and 52") represents the top-of the
line in Sony's vast array of LCD flat panel high definition
televisions. The KDL-46XBR4 employs the "SPVA" (super patterned
vertical alignment) LCD panel sourced through its partnership with
Samsung. This technology claims both higher contrast and better
viewing angles than delivered by any competing LCD panels.
Other features of the KDL-46XBR4 include a "floating" glass design
(clear glass extending past the bezel), 10-bit LCD panel (to reduce
dithering artifacts by creating more gradations between black and
white), Motionflow(tm) 120Hz "full HD frame rate capability," which
creates interpolated intermediate frames between real frames of image
information to reduce LCD "motion blur" (most LCDTVs are 60Hz, more on
this later). Its WCG (Wide Color Gamut) CCFL (cold cathode fluorescent
lamps) produces more color space than normal fluorescent (backlight)
lamps used in many other LCDs, but less than the standard definition
NTSC parameters.
While Sony does not provide numbers, Samsung does (remember: they co-
own the LCD panel factory), indicating color space at 92% of the NTSC
standard as opposed to the 72% reported by most other manufacturers
using "regular" CCFLs. The KDL-46XBR4 also has x.v. Color(tm) technology
for reproducing more color with future Playstation 3 games and
possibly future HD DVDs and Blu-ray discs, but ultimately its ability
to reproduce a fuller spectrum of color is restricted to the WCG
CCFL's limited capabilities.
In order to evaluate the Sony's performance the HD Guru(tm) utilized a
number of signals, including a new test for motion resolution. Let's
begin with deinterlacing performance.
All 1080i HD broadcasts (CBS, NBC, CW, HBO, Showtime, Discovery HD, HD
Net and most of the other HD Networks) must be properly
"deinterlaced" (with motion compensation) to 1080p on a frame-by-frame
basis in order to properly retain all 1080 lines of resolution on a
display. Some 1080p HDTVs "deinterlace" by discarding every other
frame, meaning you will see just 50% of the resolution.
I quickly discovered that this Sony does not properly deinterlace
1080i in the factory default "Vivid" picture setting. In fact, it also
drops 50% resolution in the "Standard" picture mode as well. However,
the set does properly deinterlace the 1080i signal and does deliver
all frames, and thus does display the full vertical resolution, in
either "Custom" or "Cinema" picture mode!
Why did Sony choose to make the default mode one that fails to
properly deinterlace incoming 1080i signals? I haven't the faintest
idea, especially since, according to a number of set makers, the
majority of HDTV buyers leave the user settings in the factory
default!
If you pick up just one tip from this website, it should be to change
your HDTV out of its "showroom default" setting (which may be called
"Dynamic" or some other variation) as soon as it is unpacked and
connected. The preferred picture setting on most brands will be called
"Cinema," or "Custom," or "Pro," or some variation of those. Check
your owner's manual for the choices.
When you select whatever the "advanced" setting is called, it will
always deliver a better image under home lighting conditions than the
factory default setting, which is intended only for brightly (over)lit
dealer showrooms.
The 3:2 cadence test determines if the set's video processor properly
identifies film-based 24fps content and converts it to 60fps (in this
and in most 120Hz sets the processor then interpolates and creates an
intermediary frame to produce double the frame rate).
This Sony, like most of the 75 2007 models the HD Guru(tm) tested this
year, failed the 3:2 cadence test. Failure results in degraded
resolution and/or visible artifacts. Unlike the de-interlace test,
where switching picture modes affected the result, the KDL-46XBR4
failed to identify and convert 24fps film-based signal in all picture
modes. Silicon Optix's HQV HD test disc (Blu-ray edition) provided
both 3:2 cadence and 1080i de-interlace tests).
Measuring a set's bandwidth determines its ability to pass the HDTV
video signal's full frequency range. If it is attenuated (reduced),
you will not see the finest horizontal resolution detail, or the full
1920 pixels, despite the display's claimed full resolution. The
KDL-46XBR4 passed the entire one pixel on/off signal using a Sencore
403 signal generator. To view every pixel as it is generated, requires
changing the user menu "Screen" setting to "Full Pixel" from the
"Normal" factory default that produces "overscan" and cuts off around
5% of the total image.
Though the "Normal" factory default only outputs around 1830 out of
1920 pixels, it is set that way to mask artifacts present in HDTV
broadcast signals that sometimes produces distracting lines and noise
that may otherwise appear at the sides, or top of the screen. However,
switching to "Full Pixel" mode is necessary to get full pixel
resolution from HD DVD and Blu-ray signals. Just remember to switch
back when watching broadcast HDTV.
The latest tests in the HDTV Guru's arsenal, static and motion
resolution measurements are derived from a new 1080i Blu-ray test disc
called "FPD Benchmark Software for (the) Professional." A frame called
a "Monoscope Test," consisting of four groupings of four non-parallel
black lines arrayed to form a wedge-shaped patterns (see photo below)
that appear at the top, sides and bottom of a center square. To test
resolution, you look at the bottom wedge. There are both stationary
and moving versions of the test.
The stationary test is for "static" resolution, determined by the
point where the lines are no longer seen as separate, and begin to
blur together. Numbers adjacent to the wedges help make what is a
subjective test, somewhat easier to determine and more reliable. The
moving "Monoscope Test" pattern provides the means to measure motion
resolution.
As with the de-interlacing test, static and moving resolution results
were picture mode dependent. "Custom" and "Cinema" modes produced 1080
"lines" of static resolution and 600 lines of motion resolution.
"Standard" mode produced1080/580 static/motion and "Vivid," the
factory default produced a disappointing, but not surprising 880/450
static/motion. This is yet another reason to get this set out of the
"Vivid" mode.
The KDL-46XBR4's maximum 600-line motion resolution performance tied
that of a recently tested Sharp 120Hz LCD panel, making these two the
highest measuring motion resolution LCD panels to date. Yet both fall
short when compared to the best-measured plasma performance (880
lines) or LCOS microdisplay (780 lines)."
450 lines in "Vivid" is miserable, but anyone dumb enough to use this
setting anyway deserves it. Even a static test can't resolve 1080
lines! But "custom" and "cinema" should no doubt be the right options
- 1080/600 is a lot better than 880/450
You can see though how this differs from plasma - it has made good
advances in motion and blacks, but is not near plasma yet in these
categories, it has simply made strides. The 880 lines of resolution
provided in motion from the Panasonic TH-50PZ700U 1080p 50" Viera
plasma and the 900 lines of motion resolution from the Pioneer
PDP-6010FD 1080p 60" KURO plasma are kings of the hill.
.
- References:
- My opinion on LCD vs Plasma Flat Screen HDTVs.... Consumer's Report Magazine was right
- From: Cbeyond
- Re: My opinion on LCD vs Plasma Flat Screen HDTVs.... Consumer's Report Magazine was right
- From: Mark A
- Re: My opinion on LCD vs Plasma Flat Screen HDTVs.... Consumer's Report Magazine was right
- From: ninphan
- Re: My opinion on LCD vs Plasma Flat Screen HDTVs.... Consumer's Report Magazine was right
- From: Flasherly
- My opinion on LCD vs Plasma Flat Screen HDTVs.... Consumer's Report Magazine was right
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