Re: HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray

In article <fj2vnt0745@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
willbill <trek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Lloyd Parsons wrote:

willbill <trek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Lyrik wrote:

<snip fanboy stuff>


HD DVD has a wider variety of better sound than Blu-Ray!

odds are that that is true

given that almost all (all?) HD-DVD movie disks
come with a minimum of DD Plus (DD+) sound,
see end of the "Capacity/codecs" subtitle near
the top of:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_high_definition_optical_disc_for
mat
s

<"Whilst the two formats support similar audio codecs,
their usage varies. Most titles released on the Blu-ray
format include Dolby Digital tracks for each language
in the region, and many also include a Linear PCM track
for the primary language. On the other hand, most titles
released on the HD DVD format include Dolby Digital Plus
tracks for each language in the region, and some also
include a Dolby TrueHD track for the primary language.">

...and also:
<"For commercially available discs, as of September 2007
40% of Blu-ray titles use the 50 GB disc and 60% use
the 25 GB disc[88] while most HD DVD movies are in the
30 GB dual layer format.[89]">

also see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Digital_Plus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Digital
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_TrueHD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCM

and given that the large majority of Blu-ray movie
disks only use standard DD, the open question is:

for those hi-def movies that are offered in both
formats, does the multichannel sound of HD-DVD
movies actually *sound* better than Blu-ray movies?

i've yet to see a comment on this from anyone that
owns both a Blu-ray player and a HD-DVD player

but i have a sneaking suspicion that the normal
HD-DVD movie sounds better than it's
Blu-ray counterpart



Too many variables to really give a straight answer, but I'll give a
slightly curved one... :)


OK and thank you very much for your legit input!

maybe something meaningful re sound will actually
get said in this thread! :)


The few movies that I've tried both the HDDVD and BD discs with seemed
very similar in audio quality when using the HDA2 for HDDVD & Sony
BDP-S300 for Blu-Ray.


OK

moving your stated equipment to here:

The AV setup used :
Yamaha RX-V661
Cerwin-Vega VE series Bookshelves and center
Velodyne VRP1200 Subwoofer


i looked up your Yamaha
(at:
www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=547398&CNTYP=PRODUCT )

as well as the detailed pic of the back panel

interesting back panel! it appears to have
a 5.1 RCA input. have you ever used it?

It actually has 7.1 rca multi-channel input, but no I've not used it.
See at bottom about a 'procrastinators delight' I did for awhile though.

a bit light at 26 lbs. to my utter shock,
mine is only 29 lbs. (?) (and no, this is
NOT reverse oneupsmanship!) :)

fwiw, i was looking at a 1.3 Onkyo a week
or two ago (~$1,500) that i think weighed
~ 60 lbs. (?)

I'm not an Onkyo fan for no real reason. But for the Onkyo 605, while
most seem to like it, the major complaint is HEAT!

also, it has decent digital TosLink sound input (3),
as well as digital coax sound input (2); fwiw, my
own limited experience (with a surprisingly decent
but very inexpensive!) Pioneer AVR was that
multichannel sound via the coax was inferior to
the sound via TosLink; but i've not revisited that
with my current (clearly superior not to mention
much more expensive) Denon AVR

I've never tested, but have used both opt/coax inputs and found them to
be equal to my less than audiophile ears.

but i did not look up your Blu-ray player
nor your PS3

The BDP-S300 is Sony's entry level.
The PS3 is a game console that also does BD

otoh, your Toshiba HDA2 doesn't have 5.1 RCA outputs,
so how (i.e. cable type) are you getting sound from it
(HDA2) into your Yamaha AVR?

Via HDMI. HDDVD specs require the player to decode all tracks on a
HDDVD to LPCM via HDMI, that's the way mine does it.

i see that it sez it can do HDMI 1.2a; my Denon
only does 1.1. but what about decoding DD+ (for
the HD-DVD movies)? i suspect that it will decode DD
from the Blu-ray movies, but does it decode 5.1 LPCM
from those Blu-ray movies (that have that)?

and how are you getting sound (cable type) from
your BD player and your PS3 into the Yamaha AVR?

You are mixing things up a bit.
The HDA2 is HDDVD not Blu-Ray

All my sources are HDMI to the Yamaha. Here's the connections:

PS3 --> HDMI

All these HDMI via a 4-1 HDMI Switch from monoprice
HDDVD
SD Changer
Satelllite HD Receiver


But when using the PS3 for BluRay, the sound produced from BD is overall
louder and better quality, imo.

What seems to be consistent with both BD players in comparison to the
HDA2 is bass. The bass in most Blu-Rays seem more driving than it does
on HDDVD.

But I'm seeing most BluRay discs I have rented or bought having LPCM
available,


only maybe 40% of Blu-ray movie discs have LPCM;
but it's not clear to me if that 40% is all
multichannel or some of it only stereo

While I've never seen a movie on either format in stereo only, I'm sure
some old movie exists that way. Everything I've seen is multi-channel
of one kind or another.

of those Blu-ray movies that do have 5.1 LPCM,
have you compared the LPCM sound to that of the
also included 5.1 DD?

It is amazingly better. Clearer with effects better placed in the field
as needed. Overall a vastly superior sound experience than 5.1 DD.
That said, most of the time the DTS and DD that is on varying Hi-def
discs is a high-bitrate version, so the sound is better on Hi-def than
SD even with only DD or DTS.


a few with TrueHD, and (Fox) DTS-HD MA, while most HDDVD
discs have DD+ and a very few have TrueHD.


fwiw, i still haven't bought a hi def player,
but i'm currently leaning strongly towards
getting a 3rd gen Toshiba A35 (which has
5.1 RCA output for the sound, which will
work with my Denon AVR-2307CI); i'll let
the player decode the multichannel sound
coz my Denon AVR doesn't decode all of the
latest hi def sound codecs

i plan to hook up sound to my AVR via both
the 5.1 RCA output as well as a fiber TosLink
cable, and take the video (only) from the
player into my flat screen via an HDMI cable

i use my TV remote to switch the video source,
and my AVR remote to switch the sound source


bill

I have a couple of receivers due to my superior procrastination skills!
:-)

My other one is a Harman Kardon AVR247. Such a sweet sound, but alas,
it really is just a 5.1 receiver in disguise as it will not do 7.1 via
HDMI, only via mullti-channel analog. And it has the LFE issue of not
boosting the LFE from HDMI sources, thereby missing some of the 'ooomph'
that those receivers without the issue have.

Here is my 'procrastinators delight' setup that I used with both
receivers :

INPUTS:
BD & HDDVD input to Yamaha via HDMI
Sat Receiver via HDMI to HK
SD Changer via HDMI to HK
Yamaha sound via Yamaha 7.1 Pre-out to HK 7.1 Multi-channel input

OUTPUTS:
Yamaha to TV via 2 port HDMI switch
HK to TV via 2 port HDMI switch

Audio out of HK to speakers.

I got the best of both from that. The Yamaha took care of the lack of
7.1 HDMI for the hi-def players and the LFE issues, and allowed layering
of IIx over 5.1 LPCM to give 7.1 (really nice feature!)

The HK provided the sweetness and clarity.

But the stack of remotes just kept growing as you might imagine... ;-)

HK swears they'll have a firmware upgrade to address these and other
issues and if they do I may switch back from the Yamaha. But until then
the HK is gathering dust.
.