Re: Route signals through receiver or hdtv first?
- From: Doug <wdsims63@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 05:30:05 -0700
On Aug 1, 7:23 pm, google_pos...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Aug 1, 3:03 pm, Jan B <nos...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 18:14:30 -0000, Doug <wdsim...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Aug 1, 1:37 pm, phil-news-nos...@xxxxxxxx wrote:
On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 17:57:50 +0200 Jan B <nos...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
| On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 13:50:58 -0000, Doug <wdsim...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
|
|>On Jul 31, 2:55 pm, google_pos...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
|>> I hope you can help me out with architecture for my new home theater -
| ...
|>Obviously, this is only my opinion, but here is how I think you should
|>arrange everything.
| ...
|> a good Denon will give you all of
|>this for around $400-$800. Depending on whether you want 5, 6, or 7
|>speakers.
|>
|>This would be a good option, but it is short one optical connector
|>(only 2 optical), but its only $329 (Denon :
|>http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3252.asp#
|>Another low cost option is this one (Denon AVR-587):
|>http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3248.asp#
|>A higher priced option (w/HDMI switching) would be the 2307CI that the
|>other poster mentioned listed (as he said) at $800:
|>http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3255.asp#
|
| I didn't see Doug mentioning that it might be essential to have audio
| delay capability in the surround amplifier.
| This is an adjustable delay (often 0-200ms) to balance the video
| processing delay in the TV. If the video delay is over your acceptance
| threshold (which is often the case) you will need it.
Shouldn't the TV have this integrated and apply it to not only its own
speakers, but also the audio out connections (red and white RCA jacks)?
...
There are several problems with that:
1) There are plenty of TV models that do not include a delay circuit
for the audio (to balance the video delay), even for the sound through
the TV speakers. (At least european models.)
2) The 5.1 sound from external sources needs in many cases to be
routed directly to the surround amplifier.
3) Also using HDMI connection it seems to be diffficult to get 5.1
sound through the TV because the TV tells the source it only supports
2 channel sound (and often only PCM).
In response to Jan: Yes. I did forget that.
To Phil:
That's only the case if the TV is the source. In the OP's case, the TV
is not the source (except maybe for OTA digital broadcasts). The TV is
the video destination (display only), the sound from each source will
go through the receiver. So if there is a lot of latency in the data
path, the sound will be delayed more than the video signal will be. In
general though, this delay isn't a huge problem unless the TV has to
scale the video a large amount, or the audio has a lot of processing
to do.
Just to be precise; It is the video that gets dealyed (i.e. behind the
audio) due to the video processing in the display.
The amount depends on the processing.
With models that performs motion estimation, delays between 50-80ms
are common.
The acceptance threshold varies between people.
Reports (from EBU) concludes that the threshold commonly is between
-60 to +40m. (In real life the sound never comes before the image.) It
also concludes that once the test subjects noticed the delay, their
acceptance treshold reduced.
/Jan
Thanks, everyone! I actually looked on the web site and then called
up Sharp to see if the TV delayed the audio by the video delay time.
While very friendly, Sharp couldn't tell me if the audio was delayed
appropriately or not. (I assumed, like Phil, that it would be).
Jan, it sounds like the problem with going through the TV first is
that the 5.1 sound may not make it properly through the TV - is that
right?
I can't send the inputs to two places - my wife would throw a fit if I
told her that she needs to select the right input on two remotes. So
now I need to pick out a receiver that has good sound and decent
upconversion of the video signal. Not to hijack this thread, but the
Denon got poor reviews for converting video, so I'm thinking of the
Onkyo TX-SR674.
Thanks again!
For the 5.1 to make it to the receiver from your HDMI sources, I
suggested using the optical (or coaxial digital) straight from the
source to the receiver instead of; source -> TV -> receiver. That was
exactly the problem that I mentioned you need to avoid in my first
post. You don't have to send the audio that gets to the TV to the
receiver (you can, and it makes sense to do that for OTA broadcasts),
but for the other signals, just bypass the TV altogether. Of course, I
will mention that when I tried this at my house, I got a call the next
day from my wife complaining that the sound from the movie was not
working, and my little girl was not happy(my daughter, not my wife,
although she wasn't happy either). So now the sound goes to the TV,
AND to the receiver. I don't have any problems with it, and when I
want surround sound (from digital broadcasts or DVDs), I just flip on
the surround sound and switch to the right input.
I don't mind if you don't get a Denon, its not gonna hurt my feelings.
I will mention that you don't have to scale the video (upconversion)
in the receiver. I am pretty sure it has an option for direct pass-
thru (for component) so that your nice TV can do all the upconversion.
I have no idea about the HDMI though.
.
- References:
- Re: Route signals through receiver or hdtv first?
- From: Doug
- Re: Route signals through receiver or hdtv first?
- From: Jan B
- Re: Route signals through receiver or hdtv first?
- From: phil-news-nospam
- Re: Route signals through receiver or hdtv first?
- From: Doug
- Re: Route signals through receiver or hdtv first?
- From: Jan B
- Re: Route signals through receiver or hdtv first?
- From: google_poster
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