Re: The Latest on China and DTV
- From: Bob Miller <bob@xxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 00:51:48 GMT
phil-news-nospam@xxxxxxxx wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 03:48:11 GMT Bob Miller <bob@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:Manufacturers make what broadcasters want. Broadcasters have already been testing the two in cities around China. Five for VSB and 30 to 40, heard 40 today, for TD-OFDM. Broadcasters in China are overwhelmingly for TD-OFDM and that is why manufacturers are NOT going to offer anything for VSB. A few months ago they WERE going to support VSB but now, only days after the choice was made, the market has already spoken. If there were a demand for VSB then there would be manufacturers ready to supply it.
| The Chinese standard is dual with a VSB and a TD-OFDM option. The VSB is | a much improved version of the US 8-VSB.
| | Broadcasters, manufacturers of transmitters, chip manufacturers and | receiver manufacturers can all choose what they want to use. They can | all decide what is best in a free market. They can all test up the kazoo | if they want.
| | The shootout is at hand.
| | But there will be no shoot out. There is zero support for the VSB | modulation. The University that fought so hard for VSB has won a Pyhrric | political victory.
| | My source tells me that no manufacturer of any kind will build anything | to do with VSB.
If the manufacturers make the choice to exclude VSB, then how can the
choice by the broadcasters be based on technical merits of VSB vs.
OFDM? We already know most manufacturers (probably all in China)
never use quality as a choice factor.
What I am reading between the lines is that since the overwhelming majority, read all, of broadcasters are choosing TD-OFDM, the manufacturers are going out of their way to announce that they will not support VSB so as to cut off the odd-ball broadcaster from even thinking about it.
One told me that if someone wanted VSB, he also stated that no one had, they were ready to offer a single carrier TD-OFDM solution which would itself be superior to the VSB single carrier offering just too dissuade them. And they are ready to prove that the single carrier TD-OFDM is still vastly superior to the VSB solution.
Remember test have been going on in many cities for a number of years now. Everyone has had a chance to see, hear and experience the differences between the two. This is the most extensive and longest lasting of testing of the two modulations in real world situations. Lots of people had receive equipment, it was installed on trains and buses and in cars. I had a call from an engineer in a city I never heard of asking for help with DVB-T propagation in a tunnel. Seems this city had a population over five million and I never heard of it.
I know of no evidence that VSB is more expensive and or less profitable than TD-OFDM on the transmitter side. I did hear that in the US 8-VSB was substantially less expensive than COFDM on the transmit side. According to your theory that would make manufacturers be for it. However I remember a big US manufacturer crying crocodile tears over the disaster that 8-VSB was after they supported it.
As soon as 8-VSB was official broadcasters went to the FCC asking for low power status and killing the immediate sales that transmitter manufacturers were counting on. If it had been a decision for COFDM their sales would have gone though the roof IMO.
On the receive side I think it would be a wash in a country like China. Very big market, fast penetration, they would reach bottom of the barrel prices with either modulation because of incredible sales between now and the Olympics.
Bob Miller
If COFDM had or was allowed then dual receivers would be easy to make and not much more expensive. To add COFDM to an 8-VSB receiver would be a few dollars. Less than $6. They already exist without any mandate. Here is one.
| He says that VSB was allowed only to settle the argument, that is let | the market decide.
Or rather, let the manufacturers decide which modulation design gives
them the greatest profit, all other factors being ignored. I cannot
go for that at all.
| Back in 2000 Sinclair Broadcasting asked for the same thing for the US. | Just allow COFDM and let the market place decide. At that time 8-VSB | proponents knew that if COFDM was allowed in the US that 8-VSB was finished.
How would that have affected the cost of a mandatory digital tuner,
which if some broadcasters may use one modulation and others use
another modulation would mean the receivers must have both to make
the market choice by broadcasters a genuine choice on the merits of
the modulation itself, rather than simply on which modulation the
manufacturers (which are the most corrupt in this whole mess) happen
to choose?
| After all if 8-VSB was better what threat would COFDM have offered? What | broadcaster would have chosen COFDM when they already had been working | with 8-VSB for a number of years?
If all receivers are required to have both modulation types in their
receivers, then I think it would be a fair choice. And if then I saw
broadcasters mostly choosing COFDM then I would believe they had some
valid technical reason for choosing it. But that requirement for both
systems in all receivers _must_ be part of it to make such choices be
of any meaning.
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?nov-lcd37d&P=0
In Europe even.
But if COFDM was allowed in the US then immediately, the same thing that is happening in China would happen here. DAY ONE all broadcasters with the possible exception of CBS, would immediately switch to COFDM. I say with the exception of CBS because someone is really stupid there.
No China did the testing extensively with the public in many cities. They then made the right technical call. They chose the best modulation for all the right reasons. And this was done in the market with broadcasters, the public and manufacturers interacting. No need to go any further.
| The simple fact was and is that COFDM based modulations are so far | superior to VSB that in any free market VSB disappears.
| | Now we will see it happen in China.
Do all receivers in China have both of their modulations? If not, then
the choice by broadcasters could not be a choice of their own choosing,
but would rather be, a choice by the manufacturers, and not really one
of any value whatsoever (always profit and never quality is the basis of
their choices, and that is not a kind of market choice I like).
Their decision is in line with the decisions made in all other countries except the US. The US decision, made for corrupt political reasons for 8-VSB caused the decisions of S. Korea, Canada and Mexico on other then technical grounds.
Any country that looked at the technical merits chose a form of COFDM.
Bob Miller
.
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