Re: Sony?




Ok buddy,,i am not going to try to address all the delusions you
posted,,

Remember,,this discussion thread is about whether Sony and Toshiba
have a product that will meet mass market critical mass,,,

And the continuing answer is,,NO,,,

How much do you make,,JQP makes around 50K a year,,and does not give a
flying you know what about HD TV, HD DVDs.-..they are worried about
paying the heating bill, not about 'dazzling new" TV formats.

Yes they might be available (and no just because you can log onto the
Crutchfield web site and be promised one 6 months from now doesn't
count as being "on the market"......and certainly does not count as
"flying off the shelves,,,".

and again no,,1080p TVs and 1080 p DVD players are not "flying off the
shelves"....a 1500 to 2 grand TV does not have 1080p native
capability,,no no no no,,,they do not. Even the current 500 buck HD
DVD players do not,,the disc do not contain 1080p,,,they have 1080i -
yes they might have been mastered at the studio at 1080p,,but they are
interlaced down to 1080i, as well as compressed with mpeg 4.

Yes,,you can buy a ten grand TV that does allow 1080p input as a
native format,,,again my point is,,that does not make a MASS MARKET
viable format ,,,,

Most consumers who buy 'big screen TVs" are sitting home watching
analog cable, analog OTA, or horribly compressed "digital"
satelite,,,,they like a "big" picture, they could care less about how
good it does or does not look,,,,

And your idea that vision is better than hearing is beyond wrong -
hearing does not loose accuity as it moves away from the source,
vision does - if you sit back from any TV more than a few feet, its
almost impossible to see the difference between 480i and 1080p - the
Perfect Vision mag be dammed (they get paid by the adverstisers to
tell you you need a new TV dude),,thats a physical fact of the
universe, and is based on the angular acuity of the human eye....

If you want an objective review of HD DVD,,i can link you to this
months Consumer Reports - by line,,"Press pause on HD DVDs,,,"

Again, to try to re center this discussion,,its not about what can be
done,,its about what should be done, and what can be sold. Yes people
go into orbit on the space shuttle,,,is everybody going there,,NO. yes
your car is capable of going 150 mph,,,have you ever driven it that
fast,,,NO. Will JQP buy 30 dollar versions of the Last Samurai in
order to see Tom Cruises nose hairs over and over again,,,NO

Will HD DVDs ever replace DVDs,,,No,,,its not the same MASS MARKET
perceivable difference that it was between VHS and DVD,,,,

So buddy, chill out, sit a few feet farther back from your Big Screen
TV, and save your money for something else,,,,say like all those Super
Audio Discs you you dont have,,,,


RicSeyler <ricseyler@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

PFFFFFFTTTTT Man.........
Are you a Bush supporter also? LOLOLOL

I'm just passing through the shop today, I'll get back to you tomorrow
or so....
BTW Go to Crutchfield and do a product search on the BluRay Players that are
NOW out..... Sony's 1080P right off the bat.... I'lll post links to
Wide Screen Review, Home Theater Mag & Perfect Vision on all your
misconceptions
about the new HD DVD/BluRay Formats...... Your fellow audiophiles in the
club should know
what they have available to them.... If you think HDMI can't do 1080p/24
AND 1080p/60,
well I'm talking to an uninformed person.. flat out.

You do realize there have been thousands and thousands HDTV's sold this
year alone, right??
And you realize there is NO pre-recorded HD Content available to those
customers for their
new HDTV's, right?? (Outside Micorsoft/computer and D-VHS, which studios
really didn't support
with many releases) And you realize the whole shipment of Toshiba HD-DVD
Players sold out within days, right??

AZV14@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

Well in fact i am the past president of the local audiophiles club
here,,so I do know what of i speak.

Ok,,I give you a full extra percent,,,98 percent do not care,,,


Find anything else while you were up there hunting for that number?

Combo player,,LOL,,Hey i paid 3 grand for my Krell CD player,,doesnt
mean there is a mass market for those either.

Then why the $150 Toshiba?!?!? Hummm?
FWIW I currently use a SimAudio Moon Orbitor...

Combo players will be so
technically complex I doubt that they will even ever make it to the
market, And Yes,,Sony keeps touting the mythical "Blue Ray " Play
station,,,,again, even it that makes it to the market,,,who
cares,,,???


OOPPSEY Check Crutchfield TODAY....... and look for combo players before
the end of the year.....

and if they can make a Blue Ray play station for $500 bucks,,,where is
the $500 buck Blue ray DVD player,,,??????


Look up the marketing strategy for Gillette Razors from the 40's.....
And Epson's
Ink Jet Printer sales strategy......

And BTW,,I have HD TV OTA at home, on a very good Toshiba 50 inch TV
(better than probably 90 percent of the US homes have,,) - and no its
not all that dramatically better than the 480i Toshiba DVD player I
paid $150 bucks for, with a well mastered DVD.

THERE WE GO..... Like I said in the first post..... "Look at all those
people
fooled by their lying eyes and ears", Tisk, Tick..... <clutching the
Tosiba Player
and stroking it>

Yes HD TV is at times a
bit sharper, slightly better color,,but its not the same as the
difference between a VHS video tape, and a DVD.

Couldn't be more wrong....... Read EVERY Review on the Toshiba with just
1080i
going into Displays with native 1080i..... Not even native 1080p players
and displays...
Over and over been compared to lifting a heavy veil from the screen.... Been
described at B&W to Color jump HD-DVD/BluRay over 480i/480p DVD.

That JQP could easily
see, and embraced the conveince, simplicity, and durability, and low
cost of the DVD format. I never claimed that HD TV isn't a better
picture, my claim is that nobody, outside the tweeker Vidieophile
market, cares... JQP is not going to reveling in a new age of HD
TV,,,they neither care, nor is the cost difference worth the price.


I refer to all those JQP's that have just purchased their brand spanking
new $2,000-$10,000
Displays desperately waiting for a HD Prerecorded format to use with
their new Outlay
Of Big Money!! Using your theory there would be NO HDTV Displays being
sold.........
JQP could spend less than $1,500 bucks and have the best dang CRT out
there.... OOPSEY Again....

Sony and Toshiba seem to have left out all those essential marketing
fundamentals with HD DVDs.

Oh and all we need is to throw out all our present Big Screen Tvs,
those with the older HDMI, DVI, and component only inputs,,so we can
maybe buy a 1080p DVD....??? I do not stand corrected, neither format
supports 1080p as a native output,,,,,and they most likely never will.


PFFFFFFTTT Dude quit making such definitive statements without really
knowing,
sheesh Guy! LOLOL <Pats AZV14 on the shoulder>

My sports car can go 140 mph,,,will it ever,,not likely.


Mine will do that EASY. FWIW LOLOLOL
And 1080P Players and Displays are already here, so stop fighting them here,
so you don't have to fight them there!!! LOLOLOL

and answer my main question,,how many Super Audio Discs do you own,,??


Whole different animal, JQP haven't already went out and purchased and
are now going out purchasing
SACD players waiting impatiently for content....... Com'on man that's a
lame argument..... Thousands and thousands
of HDTV's have already been purchased and 1080P Displays are flying out
of the stores now....


What's the primary music format now - MP3s, and WMA,,,,,,both god
awful sounding, but still dominant.


I read a good analogy on this, you don't have to be educated in the
media to see
a difference -vs- hearing a difference.... Pretty much lays it right
out, plainand simple.

If Sony and Toshiba had come out with a single format, using simple
existing technology, that worked with component inputs (without anal
retentive anti copy, or down res flags),

FWIW NONE of the current HD-DVD releases to date utilize the Analog
Connection flags..
Sheesh guy, really should read some on this..

and had priced them the same
or perhaps only a bit more than current MPEG 2 DVDs,,then maybe the
format would have had a chance,,,,

RicSeyler <ricseyler@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:



Might want to do a little research on that..........

HD DVD and BluRay both are mastered at 1080p. The first release Toshiba
HD DVD Player (HD-XA1) only outputs 1080i, but that has nothing to do
with the disc format.
It's because of waiting for the update to HDMI and the then uncertain
studio Token use..
And awaiting 1080p input sets, which are now flooding the market.

And the first release Sony BluRay Player will output 1080p right off the
bat.
Toshiba will do 1080p on their next release..... as per Wide Screen
Review, HT Magazine
and The Perfect Vision Magazine.

AZV14@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:



Niether HD format ouputs 1080p - the set my upsacle to that, but its
having an input for native 1080P is rather pointless. Native 1080p
would require almost 25 megs of bandwidth.

and if you think that HD versus Sd is some gaint leap in picture
quality then I suggest you have a very poor SD set up now.

to repeat myself,,,99 percent of consumers could care less about
HD,,,,,and 1 percent does not make a market, especially when even that
group is being split into 2 formats,,,




I'm not "99 percent" (which is a figure pulled out of the ether) of the
market, I'm a
video/audiophile and deeply care about this. The Home Theater market is
much larger
segment that you seem to be aware of.... And Combo Players (HD
DVD/BluRay) are
right around the corner.



So how many SA discs do you own,,,?




???

<I Repeat) Guessin you are gonna be one who sits and grumbles how everyone else
is fooled by the fantastic picture and fantastic sound these new formats
give over SD DVD, especially with the 1080p input HDTV's hitting the
market every week.





RicSeyler <ricseyler@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:





PFFFFFFFFTTTTTTT LOLOLOL
There is NO almost as good as BluRay/HD DVD with SD DVD, no matter
how much the manufacturer spends on Scalers and ADC/DAC's, etc.

Guessin you are gonna be one who sits and grumbles how everyone else
is fooled by the fantastic picture and fantastic sound these new formats
give over SD DVD, especially with the 1080p input HDTV's hitting the
market every week.

John wrote:





Richard wrote:






Not true.

Richard.






Blu-Ray is however capable of making one sick when they see how little
picture quality it delivers for two to three times the price. It looks
like Pioneer will release a player in Sept that will be ALMOST as good as HD
DVD for only 1500 dollars.








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Ric Seyler










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Ric Seyler








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