Re: No ATSC for Brazil

David wrote:
"Bob Miller" <robmx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:tnwBf.12263$ZA2.648@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

news.cup.hp.com wrote:

Bob Miller wrote:


The USA has more than 2200 DTV broadcast stations, most sending out full datarate, full resolution HDTV signals, of which the rest of the world has none, AFAIK.

Exactly what is "full datarate, full resolution HDTV signals"? 


Bob,

Your response is full of COFDM "can", "could" and "may be" language.

Can you cite any examples where COFDM *is* being used to broadcast reasonable-looking HD content?

There are 2200 DTV stations in the US *currently broadcasting* at 19.3x Mbps per channel, and many are *currently using* that channel capacity to broadcast reasonable-looking HD content. I have seen 720p/1080i MPEG-2 look both good (reasonable) and bad at 15Mbps, 19.3x Mbps, and at 28.2Mbps (D-VHS).

I too worry now and then that the US jumped on 8-VSB and MPEG-2 a little early for what should be a long-lived standard, but then again the US jumped in and has made it work at least 2,200 times, is gaining practical deployment experience, and is making improvements that could not have been guessed of several years prior. There's a lot to be said for academic "could" arguments vs. getting on and *doing it*.

Thomas Gilg



They could have got on and did it with COFDM. Congress actually took a relook in 2000 then sort of OKed a test that was performed and controlled by the special interest who did it in secret and fraudulently.

Six years later it has gone nowhere. OTA digital is still stagnant. Broadcasters only broadcast digitally so as to qualify for must carry.

As to the rest of the world and HD Japan has OTA digital HD and has sold 10 million receivers since they started broadcasting only 25 months ago. That would be 30 million in the US which is three times the size of Japan.

And most of those receivers are integrated HDTV sets.

And there is no mandate in Japan.

What if we had started broadcasting OTA HD just two years and one month ago and we had sold 30 million OTA digital receivers in that time with the trend decidedly up?

I will tell you what. We would have a digital OTA transition not a farce.

The US still has a chance to change to COFDM and MPEG4. In a way 8-VSB which is just a delaying tactic IMO by broadcasters has been a delaying tactic that could be used to advantage. Since we do not have a massive number of receivers sold even after 8 years we could still switch to a modulation and codec that would be state of the art and truly would be able to deliver HD as it should be delivered or at least a whole lot better.

There is a lot to be said about resisting special interest, looking out for the public's best interest and choosing the right tools for the job. Especially when the KNOWLEDGE was available and many wanted to help.

Congress and the FCC knew better. They KNEW that MPEG2 and 8-VSB were NOT the best technology and that is PRECISELY why they hurried the process to help their special interest friends LOCK in their IP royalty streams for who knows how many years just as they realized the peril that codecs like VP4 or MPEG4 and a modulation like COFDM posed to those SPECIAL INTEREST REVENUE STREAMS.

The hurry was intentional. Lock in the junk quick.

Bob Miller




The original 1998 U.K. COFDM system [Ondigital, AKA "ITV Digital"] was a miserable failure. The laughably inadequate cofdm system just couldn't handle the required bandwidth.

Try googling:    (Ondigital,"ITV Digital") (failed,failure)

Thank God the FCC went with 8VSB back then.

Had anyone complied with the screaming of the COFDM/mobile/datacasting dorks, we would now have little-to-no 1080i OTA HTDV, if any DTV at all. 


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Relevant Pages

  • Re: COFDM technical details
    ... |> Would COFDM let me receive DTV reliably from Cleveland and Columbus ... The COFDM DTV | station in Cleveland will cover Cleveland and a few immediate suburbs. ... The reality is that all COFDM based modulations have more flexibility and CAN do such things as SFN's where more broadcast sites are used at far lower power. ... There is no such thing as HD to cell phones. ...
    (alt.tv.tech.hdtv)
  • Re: How does digital TV broadcast prevent ghosting effects?
    ... Add that it's not a worldwide market so the volume is lower. ... And Direct Broadcast Satellite and Cable and the Internet has left the ... about the decision, and 8VSB versus COFDM, and an attempt by the BROADCASTERS ... as Europe of course also did not have these. ...
    (sci.electronics.design)
  • Re: No ATSC for Brazil
    ... and many are *currently using* that channel capacity to broadcast reasonable-looking HD content. ... What if we had started broadcasting OTA HD just two years and one month ago and we had sold 30 million OTA digital receivers in that time with the trend decidedly up? ... The US still has a chance to change to COFDM and MPEG4. ...
    (alt.tv.tech.hdtv)
  • Re: Next year hdtv law comes into effect
    ... |> whether 8-VSB or COFDM would be used for their transmission. ... think COFDM would have been chosen even by those stations which would ... | above channel 51 cannot broadcast TV fare. ... I also know some of the flaws inherint ...
    (alt.tv.tech.hdtv)
  • Re: Dynamic Multipath
    ... Bob Miller ... isn't it time that you accept reality and admit that COFDM is never going to be used here in the U.S. for broadcast TV? ... In this age of rapid change where in just the last few weeks the speed of change in the broadcast industry has again quickened you talk of time ... COFDM is used in all modulations in all countries other than the US, Canada, Mexico and S. Korea. ...
    (alt.tv.tech.hdtv)