Re: BREAKING: Craigslist killer- Murder weapon tied to suspect

"td" <tinydancer@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"JonesieCat" <jonesiecactus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"td" <tinydancer@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"Poe" <haunted@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Marianna wrote:
poe wrote:
Maybe the word moron is a little harsh. It just seemed unusual to me
to
not open the mystery box, either directly (snooping because she was
told
not to, or spring cleaning... whatever), or by proxy if her kids got
into it. In such a small house with kids every inch of space would
be
valuable.-

Denial is a very effecting coping skill for some people and unless
you've been around someone who lives in denial it can be hard to
conceive of just how far some people will go with it. If you can
pretend something isn't there, then you don't have to do anything to
deal with "it"; you don't have to deal with conflicting emotions,
worry about what action to take or what the consequences of those
actions might be. Ignoring a situation also gives you plausible
deniability when things do eventually blow up (or at least that's
what
those in denial count on to avoid accountability). I think Rader's
wife knew something was up but she pretended not to, just like
Fritzl's wife and scads of others.

Marianna


This makes sense. I am amazed by some some of the SOs who didn't
notice a thing, or claim they didn't.

Just like everyone here, I've been in numerous interpersonal
relationships throughout life. At times a person would give subtle
hints, not one big thing but little things, that in hindsight were
signs of some form of deceit... I assume like most people would do,
I'd naturally distance myself from those who made me uneasy.
Oftentimes after the fact the basis for my wariness would be
confirmed.

I'm trying to comprehend having one single person (BTK, Fritzle, and
the scads) getting away with a lifetime of deceit. I just can't, but
you're explanation makes sense to me, because denial can be a kind of
mental free pass to NOT deal with a difficult situation.

Denial, if we're healthy, resides in all of us and it's mostly a *good*
thing. If, OTOH, someone refuses to acknowledge she's married to a
monster even though she knows it to be true, that isn't "denial" per
se, but is rather something sinister and insidious, IMHO,
characterological and entrenched. And crosses into the criminal.

I don't see Paula Rader as in the same category as Mrs. Fritzl at all.
<shrug>

Now, again I'll add the disclaimer that I believe I would have looked
in the dang box. But I, and others of us here, IMHO, have had good
reason to be suspicious of one thing or another in our long lives, and
perhaps tend toward hypervigilance? People who don't read crime stories
day in and day out, whose life experiences haven't involved many 'bad'
things, shall we say? that there are those people in the world for whom
terrible experiences are entirely foreign? Once a woman of this bent
begins to bear and raise her children, I can see her not seeing the
signs for what they were and not recognizing that her husband was a
serial killer! I don't think she'd have to be of low IQ, but just an
average Jo trying to make it thru the day, who maybe thought her husb
was peculiar and unpleasant at worst, even a tyrant. And who turned to
her church for sustenance instead, as she and her family before her
were enculturated, never knowing the evil beside her.

jc


Okay, now this reminds me again of the couple I knew personally. I met
the wife, a casual neighborhood thing. She wasn't *dumb*, was an
elementary school teacher in a very small town prior to moving to the
*city*. But I could tell upon meeting her lots about her. She was very
timid, very quiet/shy, appeared quite lonely for a friendship, and
extremely naive. My heart went out to her, she seemed like a lost puppy
just wanting a friend. So I struck up a friendship with her, started
asking her to do things with me if she'd like. "Hey, I'm going to the
farmers market tomorrow to pick up some flats of strawberries, would you
like to come along?" "Hey, I thought I might take a pottery classs up
at the park in the fall, would you like to take it with me?" Or
perhaps, "I'm going to be canning tomatoes tomorrow, you are welcome to
come over and keep me company, I'll put ya to work helping."

So after a couple times of us doing something, her husband calls me up
to 'check on our plans'. 'Who's driving?" 'How long do you think
you'll be gone?' 'What exactly are you doing?' Now I'm thinking 'WTF
is *this*?" I haven't had to answer to anybody since I moved out of the
old mans house. And now this strange guy is calling me up to run through
our plans and tell me what we could do and what we couldn't
do................. Well, I tried to hang in there for, I'll call her
'sue', nowhere near close to her real name. So I tried to hang in
there for Sue's sake, cause she was so lonely looking all the time.
that's was until I met HIM. HE sent off major creep factors in me, so
much so that I'd nearly throw up when ever I saw HIM or had to deal with
HIM on the phone. It got to where HE'D stop by my house to check out
our plans or find out what we did that day. I'd tell my husband, "You
answer the door, you deal with HIM, because I can't, he makes me feel
like I'm going to literally throw up when I'm around him." something he
gave off.

Naturally, this couldn't go on forever, I had to gradually back off and
let *sue* go, because I just couldn't handle all that went with *her*,
meaning HIM. So it had to be about 12 years down the line when HE was
arrested for countless child rape and sodomy charges. They still lived
in the neighborhood, so I heard details from other neighbors. How *sue*
never had any suspicions, how she was devastated by all this, how the
kids were just terribly damaged, etc. I can believe perfectly that
*sue* didn't have any suspicions. The was totally intimidated by HIM.
HE treated her like a father would treat a daughter, not the way a
husband treats a wife. If HE had told her not to go into something of
his, I know she wouldn't have and she would have bought his *perfectly
logical* explanation as to why she shouldn't touch his crap.

I knew this from the time we still were friends, and she'd ask or tell
me something HE said. Me, I thought WTF at lots of the stuff she'd come
out with, but she never did. It was like she believed that 'city
people' were all like this or had these idocincricies, (sp?), and she
was just a small town girl who bought everything he said hook, line, and
sinker.

It was just a horrible tragedy what happened to those children, and
perhaps if I hadn't cut her off, maybe I would have seen something, but
the man made me so sick I just couldn't have any dealings with him.


td

What a story. Horrible how things go for some people. What happened to
Sue after her husband went away? And did they have children?

jc



Yes, it was their children who were the victims. Three little boys. All
born after I broke it off with *sue*. She was pregnant with the first
one at the time I stopped hanging out with her. One of my immediate
neighbors also had sons, and the boys were in various activities together
both in school and after school. I also had a good friend who lived on
the same street as *sue*, so I heard information from all sources, school
people, neighbors of theirs, and parents of kids who were in the same
classes as their kids, etc. It was so tragic, nobody was like
'gossiping'. Everyone was basically traumatized by it all. Felt horrible
for sue and the children. I didn't see or hear anyone gossiping about it
or being nasty about it. When I'd talk to someone or hear something from
someone, they'd be nearly in tears about it all. KNow what I'm trying to
say here? It wasn't a gossipy/snotty/attempting to spread lies or half
truths type thing.

One of the boys told someone at school what was happening, is what I
heard. That's how HIS world fell apart. One of the sons told on HIM. HE
was an engineer, not some low-life trashy person. HE pled guilty, plea
bargained down to lesser charges. HE was offered a plea because no one
wanted the boys to have to testify. The charges he pled to bought him 15
years, IIRC. I say that because even with the watered down charges and
pleas, he still did 15 years, which is a lot for a plea bargain situation.
They had him dead to nuts, pun intended.

*Sue* sold their house and moved away with the boys. I heard she went
back to the small town she was from. Last I heard about her before she
moved was from my neighbor with her own boys. she said sue's boys were
very damaged emotionally. I can't recall her exact words anymore, but
what she said was how damaged those little boys were. :(( The eldest
child carried his fathers name, he was a jr. Poor thing.

When this all first happened, it hit me like a ton of bricks, I felt
guilty for breaking it off with sue. And I remembered so many things
she'd told me or talked about when we were friends. HE used to be
involved in *Big Brothers* organization. So who know's how many little
boys he 'fucked up', literally and figuatively. :(( And I remembered
sue telling me things, like the basement was off limits to her. How 'he
needed a 'guy place' and that hopefully when/if he had a son, it would be
the 'man place'.

And I remembered a strange question/comment she made once. At the time I
thought it was icky, I tried to not 'take it in' too much for that
reason. Tney didn't have kids yet, and I remember sue kind of
saying/asking/questioning once how HE told her everyone should have at
least one enema a week, and she wondered if that was a safe thing to do.
She was so naive, and so much like she was totally out of touch with what
was normal and what wasn't. IIRC, she was an only child and had lost her
mother when she was very young. I tell you jc, she was like a little lost
lamb. I wished I could have done something for her, but he was such a
strong personality. She would be described as *mousy* and timid. She was
just blown over to have such a worldly, prosperous husband. Like, "I
can't believe such a dynamic man would ever be interested in *me*." I
often wonder what happened to her and the boys. After it all blew up, I
wanted so much to try and talk to her, but I thought it would appear like
I was just trying to be nosey now. And that wasn't it. I really liked
her as a person. Had HE not been involved, I'm sure we would have
remained good friends.

td

What a story. I wonder whatever became of them all. Enemas? Ewww. Tho I had
one single gf who's bf talked her into giving each an enema one evening.
Didn't sound like much fun to me.

Wrt to *Sue* - I know what you mean, not gossipy, but this sort of thing,
the vulnerability and abuse, it's disturbing to people who know them, and
there's no Miss Manners about how to conduct oneself, especially back in
those days I think, when people tended to whisper about such things rather
than discuss them loudly in the light of day. Have you ever thought of
googling the names of the boys?

jc

jc


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