Re: Fritzl

Bill Shroyer wrote:
On Mon, 05 May 2008 14:48:39 GMT, Amy Guskin <aisling@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

On Mon, 5 May 2008 10:29:18 -0400, tiny dancer wrote
(in article <%PETj.70968$vr3.21799@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>):

"Amy Guskin" <aisling@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:0001HW.C44482AD02FC76FDF0407648@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Mon, 5 May 2008 02:49:00 -0400, Ruthless wrote
(in article <481eab98.124965671@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>):

Hey Amy,

Yes dreadful disgusting conditions with out medical assistance or even
another female to comfort her.
I hate to quibble with any expression of compassion for this woman, but
this statement makes me want to point out two things:
1) Why "another female"? Why not "another person"? One evil man does not
make all men evil.
Can't imagine choosing a male over a female to walk me through the
birthing process. I had no problem with having a male doctor, but my
birthing partner? I wanted a woman. In the case of my first child, I was
happy to have my husband in the room, but I insisted on my Mom (that would
be my adopted mom, not my bio-mother) too, and if it had come down to a
choice between them, my husband woulda been in the waiting room.

And that had nothing to do with hating men. It had everything to do with
wanting someone who had experienced what I was going through to stay with
me while I went through it, and to let me know that it was all normal and
was all gonna be okay. <<
Thanks, Davi. I don't have children, but I know for a dead certain fact that
if I got pregnant tomorrow, the only person I'd want by my side is my
husband. Hands down.

2) Doesn't her 19-year old daughter, Kerstin, count as "another female"?
Her 19-year-old daughter was 14 when Elisabeth had her last child. At that
age, she might have been a decent birthing partner, but she wouldn't have
had much to offer prior to that.<<
Yeah, I didn't realize that Aus Wendy was specifically talking about the
births; I thought she meant the whole experience of being down there without
any medical care. So right, obviously Kerstin couldn't be much help to her
until she was older.

Still, I'm surprised so many women feel this way, about wanting a woman
nearby -- rather than their husband -- when they give birth. Your husband is
the one who _created_ this child with you; it just seems like the most
natural thing that he should help you bring it into the world. There's no
one I'd trust more to help me with that.

Amy

I think the key words in your reply are 'I don't have children'. <<
Yep. Sorry, Tiny, but this is exactly what I meant by "that breedist attitude" in my reply to Aus Wendy. Women who have given birth sometimes think they have some special knowledge that the rest of us don't have. Am I special, too, because I've passed a kidney stone? I've been told that that pain is more intense -- and often more long-lasting -- than childbirth.

I really resent my fruitful-wombed sisters assuming that I do not know how I'd feel if I were giving birth. After a very bad accident several years ago, in which I broke both of my shoulders and dislocated both of my arms, I really learned what my husband was made of, and who I had married. Imagine what you cannot do for yourself without any arms. Imagine having to let someone else do it for you. (Imagine being a strong, independent, control freak of a person and having to let someone else do all that for you, too.) Sure, my parents were there, and nurses, but _most_ of my care was done by my husband, who, by the grace of some deity or other, was between jobs at the time -- like most people in IT, he'd been laid off from time to time when a project had been cancelled, but this last time he got a job the _day_ he got laid off...and had luckily decided to take a few weeks off before starting the new job. So, he was around to handle most of my care in the period when I could not use my arms at all.

After going through that together, I can say with 100% surety that if I were giving birth, there is _no one_ I would rather have by my side. I love him, he's my best friend, he's the smartest and kindest person I know...why would a woman be a better companion for me than _that_ amazing man, who is closer to me than any other human being?

It's kind of like saying that you'll only let a cardiologist operate on you if he or she has had heart surgery themselves.

Dear, this is only my perceptions of what the ladies are saying with
me as a man, but from what I can see that all is not the point. It's
not the level of pain or anything even remotely related to it (though
as a separate thing, I'm sure that's one of many factors), it's the
specific -conditions- of being pregnant & giving birth. There are
specific internal sensations both bodily and psychological/emotional
that just don't happen with any other condition, period. Just because
you know a level of pain worse than labor does not mean you're
intimately acquainted with the experience of being pregnant and giving
birth. They're separate issues. Hormones do things to one that nothing
else can do, as well as having a little life inside you - actually
having it there is an experience that is completely different than
-thinking- about what it would be like to have one there.

Really, I think you're missing the whole point of what they are saying
to you. It doesn't matter how offensive the fact of the matter may be
to you, but the fact of the matter is that until you're in the
situation of being pregnant and delivering a child, you DO NOT know
what it's like, and you WILL NOT know what it's like. It's not just
the pain, goodness, even I as a guy know that. If the pain is all you
associate with childbirth and being pregnant, you've missed the
experience completely.

Then again, I could be wrong. I'm sure the ladies will jump all over
me... er... I mean "correct" me if I am. ;-)


That's where I was coming from, too. I loved having a female nurse present before, during, and after my delivery, for a bunch of reasons. Are you sure you're not a chick? Because you definitely get the gist of this :-)
.

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