Re: Durchlaucht/Serene Highness in Danish (was Re: Denmark: Marriage between Prince Joachim and Miss Marie Cavallier)

On Jun 2, 1:38 pm, David <ds...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jun 2, 7:00 am, CJ Buyers <susuha...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:





On Jun 1, 12:34 pm, David <ds...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jun 1, 12:23 am, François R. Velde <ve...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Durchlaucht has nothing to do with serenity.  Asking how "serenity" is
translated or how Venice was styled in Danish goes from Italian to Danish, the
question is about German to Danish.  The style "serenissimus/sérénissime/most
serene" developed independently in southern Europe and at some point was equated
with the native German styles, which literally have to do with degrees of
illumination (the more appropriate translation of erlauchtig/durchlauchtig could
be ""clarus/illustris").

That is really interesting.  At what point in time is there first
evidence for the equation being made?

Mr Velde's website tells us that the Wurtemberg family were the first
to appropriate the style of "durchlaucht" for themselves ca 1664.

I found the following book advertised on the Antiqbook website:
"Serenissimus princeps Eberhadus Dux Würtembergiae et Tecciae Comes
Montisbeligardi ..." Eberhard III. Herzog von Württemberg (1614 -
1674). Porträt, Brustbild nach halbrechts mit Elefantenorden, im Oval.
Kupfer aus Merian, Theatrum Europaeum 1663.

So one presumes that serenity (or 'The Most Serene') and durchlaucht
were equated somewhat earlier than Mr Velde imagines.

If I read that correctly, Eberhard was being called "serenissimus" at
least one year *before* he was called "durchlaucht".- Hide quoted text -

Not much difference between 1663 and 1664 in my book.

What we can safely say is, by that date the two two styles were being
equated by the Germans themselves.

I would go further and say that there should be evidence from at least
a century earlier. With Charles V we had an Emperor who held domains
in Austria, Italy, Spain, the French speaking Netherlands and God
knows where else. He must have a system of at least approximations of
rank, together with uses of titles and styles, both between his
subjects, and his subjects and foreign nobles and rulers.
.

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