Re: Napoleon in Latin (was Re: French engagement)

On 14 sep, 14:39, David <ds...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Sep 14, 2:39 am, "edespal...@xxxxxxxx" <edespal...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:



On 14 sep, 09:11, David <ds...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Sep 13, 11:42 pm, CJ Buyers <susuha...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Sep 13, 9:32 am, "edespal...@xxxxxxxx" <edespal...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

On 13 sep, 09:18, "edespal...@xxxxxxxx" <edespal...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

On 13 sep, 08:55, "pierre_aro...@xxxxxxxxxxx"

<pierre_aro...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 12 sep, 19:39, Turenne <richard.licht...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On 12 Sep, 15:52, "Tom Wilding / Stephen Stillwell"

<thomas.wild...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

Charles-Philippe, son of Michael comte d'Evreux and nephew of one of the
French claimants, Henri duc de France,

I know that this matter was discussed some time ago. But what
conclusion was reached about the title Duc de France? Is it a
mistranslation of Duke of the Franks or a title assumed by the Comte
de Paris?

IMHO, obviously a wrong translation of the title "Francorum Dux" (Duke
of the Franks), which was not a territorial one and was never used
since the accession of the Capetian dynasty. Probably, some counsellor
of the

[present]

Count of Paris picked it up in an old fashioned history book
and assumed wrongly it was something like the title "Duke of Bavaria"
vs "King of Bavaria" and so can be used in the same way by a claimant.

Quite possible used the "Duke of Bavaria" style himself in Latin "Duke
of the Bavarians", later "Duke of the Bavarians".

On ATR Latin, French has of course to be "de rigueur" even if one
happen to belong to the class of cowboys, they are dayly missing to
class themselves in Iracq (or whatever this country is spelled).

The Empeor of the Holy ..., was in Latin such of the "Romans", when
Napoleon had himself styled as of the "French" he may not have been a
too bad Latinist. Of course this has to be discussed in an other, a
new thread, which titled has to be well formulated. If the cowboys
know anything they may do such concerning the king of the ...
(English, etc); being of beyond the Seas - a Continental - one stops.- Hide quoted text -
Wasn't it the heir to the Holy Roman Emperor who was "King of the
Romans"?

Yes, but the Holy Roman Emperor was also _Imperator Romanorum Semper
Augustus_.

However, although, "Bavarorum Dux" (variously spelt) appears in some
early documents, the late usage is "Utriusque Bavariae Dux" (Duke of
the two Bavarias, i.e. upper and lower).

I expect Napoleon's Latin was execrable; it wasn't a significant
subject at Brienne-le-Château (not being of much use to the
prospective officers of the Most Christian King) and anyway Napoleon
had little talent for languages; he could never speak anything except
his native Corsican Italian and French, and the latter only
indifferently. His biographers say that he disliked the little Latin
he was taught, and had trouble with it.

One must not forget ideas were submitted to him! But also here there
is no space for his title.

On this medal (http://fortiter.napoleonicmedals.org/medals/photos/
br0420o.jpg) Napoleon appears as "NAPOLEO GALLORVM IMPERATOR ITALIAE
REX" -- "Emperor of the Gauls", not of the Franks.

There was no agreement over how to Latinize Napoleon's name (the name
of a very obscure and possibly nonexistent saint, perhaps to be
equated with a "St. Neopolus"). In this (http://
fortiter.napoleonicmedals.org/medals/photos/br0358o.jpg) medal he is
"NEAPOLIO IMPERATOR"; and here (http://fortiter.napoleonicmedals.org/
medals/photos/br0409o.jpg) the Pope is "HOSPES NEAPOLIONIS IMP." --
hospes "guest" being euphemistic for "prisoner".

Gallorum, translated: of the French.

It would be interesting to compare with titles in Latin of the kings
of France.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: French engagement
    ... French claimants, Henri duc de France, ... mistranslation of Duke of the Franks or a title assumed by the Comte ... and assumed wrongly it was something like the title "Duke of Bavaria" ... vs "King of Bavaria" and so can be used in the same way by a claimant. ...
    (alt.talk.royalty)
  • Napoleon in Latin (was Re: French engagement)
    ... French claimants, Henri duc de France, ... and assumed wrongly it was something like the title "Duke of Bavaria" ... vs "King of Bavaria" and so can be used in the same way by a claimant. ... prospective officers of the Most Christian King) and anyway Napoleon ...
    (alt.talk.royalty)
  • Re: French engagement
    ... French claimants, Henri duc de France, ... mistranslation of Duke of the Franks or a title assumed by the Comte ... and assumed wrongly it was something like the title "Duke of Bavaria" ... vs "King of Bavaria" and so can be used in the same way by a claimant. ...
    (alt.talk.royalty)
  • Re: French engagement
    ... French claimants, Henri duc de France, ... mistranslation of Duke of the Franks or a title assumed by the Comte ... and assumed wrongly it was something like the title "Duke of Bavaria" ... vs "King of Bavaria" and so can be used in the same way by a claimant. ...
    (alt.talk.royalty)
  • Re: French engagement
    ... French claimants, Henri duc de France, ... mistranslation of Duke of the Franks or a title assumed by the Comte ... and assumed wrongly it was something like the title "Duke of Bavaria" ... vs "King of Bavaria" and so can be used in the same way by a claimant. ...
    (alt.talk.royalty)