Re: Sainty controversy.


Joseph McMillan wrote:
cj.buyers@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:


From what I can see, any campaign is aimed merely at some false orders
that you [GSS] take some exception to. You seem perfectly happy to support
and promote other, obviously false orders. The supposed orders created
by the former King of Rwanda, decades into his exile and which never
existed during either his actual reign or during those of his
predecessors, are examples of this.


This thread is rather hard to follow, as some postings seem to have
been deleted, presumably by the poster(s), so I wonder if either of the
antagonists on this issue can help clarify the argument. I found Guy
Stair Sainty's mention that the Order of the Lion would be covered in
his book, but he also said that false orders would be addressed, and
that he thought the Rwandan pretender was "ill advised" in bestowing
his orders, so the fact that the Order of the Lion is to be included
doesn't tell me much about Mr. Sainty's view of it. In fact, the
anonymous Snakecharmer accused--or seemed to accuse--Mr. Sainty of
attacking the Rwandan orders, while Christopher Buyers accuses him of
promoting them. Rafal Heydal-Mankoo acknowledged that he had been the
only person involved in the Burke's project to have dealt with King
Kigeli, but again that tells us nothing about what Kigeli said or what
the editors of the Burke project think of what he said or did.

Would either (a) Mr Buyers point to what Mr. Sainty said or did that
leads him to conclude that Mr Sainty is promoting the Order of the
Lion, or (b) Mr. Sainty set forth his view of the order's legitimacy?

(For what little it's worth, I share what I take to be Mr Buyers' view,
that former ruling families can't legitimately invent new orders after
being evicted from their thrones, and agree that the burden of proof in
this case logically lies on those who maintain that the ROL is
legitimate.)

I am not really sure what exactly has been deleted, at least I haven't
been deleting any messages myself.

Mr Sainty claimed that the "Order of the Lion" had been created during
the reign of the previous Mwami, Mutara III. As I think I have pointed
out, there is no contemporary evidence whatever for such a creation.

I haven't, of course, mentioned anything about the other orders. As far
as I know, nobody claims that any of these existed prior to King
Kigali's deposition. As to where they are being placed in Mr Sainty's
book, whether under false orders or elsewhere, only he will be able to
answer.

.

Relevant Pages

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