Re: Idiots and insane persons. (long)

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 06:01:30 -0000, Dan Birchall
<feeping.creature@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Grew up there [NJ]. Voted there for a decade. Worked the polls there in
my mid-20s. (Yes, I was the youngest poll worker in town by at least
one generation, if not two.) Have read Title 19, as well as other bits
and pieces of the statutes that tie into Title 19.

This is the election law then? I'll have a look at that.

""Public question" includes any question, proposition or referendum
required by the legislative or governing body of this State or any of
its political subdivisions to be submitted by referendum procedure to
the voters of the State or political subdivision for decision at
elections."

That sounds vaguely like it's a binding referendum, rather than an
opinion poll, but it depends on the definition of "referendum
procedure", which isn't defined in this Title. (some more gargling
finds it referred to in Title 1: "the substance of acts of the
legislature, which, *for their operative force and effect, depend
upon* the adoption thereof or of any proposal thereunder by the voters
of the state or any political subdivision or district thereof, and
commonly known as referendum acts..." emphasis mine.)

...and two members of the Board of Chosen Freeholders. I don't have
any idea what in hell that last office even does,

That'd be part of your county government there, sir.

Doesn't say anything about what they *do*, and nobody that I asked had
any idea either.

Now that I know where to look, there's stuff in Title 44 about what
they do. This seems to be a rather more important position than the
general level of knowledge about them would imply. I wonder if that's
deliberate.

copious propaganda the
candidates for the bored frozen cheeseholders have been mailing you lo
these many weeks. But it doesn't sound like you can be arsed to do
anything like that.

Thus far, the only propaganda (good word, I agree) that I've been
getting in the mail have been from the Senate and Assembly candidates,
on both tickets. Loads of stuff from them, mostly dishing dirt on
their opponents, but nothing whatsoever from the Freeholders (besides
the occasional roadside sign with their names on it, which is the only
way I found out who they were in the first place), nor from the
Sheriff or Surrogate either. Sounds like they don't much care about
whether I vote for them or not. I've generally left that section of
the ballot blank, as I'm damned if I'm going to vote on something I
have no knowledge of: I could be making things worse, for all I know.
(I have seen stuff from the Sheriff in elections past, but as he was
running unopposed this year, I suppose he didn't bother.)

Now that I know what to look for, I think I'll have a better idea as
to what to do next time.

Are these State Public Questions actually binding referenda, such
that a Yes vote means the proposition becomes law,

Yes. They're questions the Legislature has put up for vote by them
asses. Again, this is something you _really should know_ if you're
going to live in New Jersey and actually go voting.

I agree. That's why I'm asking, and now I know, for which I thank you.
I know (or I've read, which isn't necessarily the same thing) that in
California they're non-binding, and in New York where I used to live,
some are binding and some aren't. Again, nothing in the literature
*available at the polling station* made that clear.

Admittedly it was the act of a luser not to have asked *before*
showing up at the poll, but even I can learn for the future, I just
need a swift kick once in a while to galvanize me to action.

I keep hearing repetitions of "Sir, we can not tell you which
way to vote."

Personally, I'd have worded it "Sir, the ballot contains explanatory
text, and state law prohibits electioneering in the polling place, so
I cannot give you guidance on how to vote."

OK, but that's the same thing in different words. The ballot does
indeed have explanatory text, but only specifically regarding the
issues at hand. Nothing there about the more general question. How is
an answer to the question I asked considered electioneering, anyway?
Did I ask which way I should vote on any proposition? Did I even tell
them which one it was that raised the question in my mind?

Nine of the twelve of them told me flat out "We don't know the answer
to that question." You *know* the answer and would prefer not to give
it for reasons that seem good and cogent to you; that's different.

Not because I'd plan on telling you to vote one way or the other, but
because I'd be concerned that *something I said* might be interpreted
as such. Ass-covering. And it really, truly is _not their job_ to
do what you asked.

Is there, somewhere, a formal job description for poll workers? I'm
curious to know what their job *is*, if not to answer questions.

Frankly, had you staged your little disruptive-idiot skit in _my_ ward,
you would have also been informed that on election days, poll workers
are deputized peace officers, and that your choices were 1) shut up
and leave, 2) shut up, vote and leave in the next 5 minutes, or the
ever-popular 3) get arrested.

Asking a question is being disruptive? I'll tell you, if I'd heard
anything like *that*, I'd have protested the ballot, left without
voting, and raised one hell of a stink as far up the chain of command
as I could reach (or, depending on how pissed off I was, opted for
choice number 3 and called my lawyer and the local papers. Imagine the
headline: "NJ voter arrested for asking questions!").

I'd like to hope, though, that had I been voting in _your_ ward, you'd
have said, "Yes, it's binding, now get in there and pull the damn
lever already", or at least "Go look at Title 19, you ^&*(% luser, and
come back when you're more educated." That, I'd have accepted with
equanimity, or at least no more than a minor grumble. At least it
would have seemed like the worker cared about whether my vote would be
meaningful or not, but it seems election workers prefer sheep.

I ask you. Am I being unreasonable in expecting the people who are
ostensibly there to help you with the mechanics of voting, to
understand what happens when you vote?

No, but you are being unreasonable in asking them to risk violatiing
the law just because you can't be bothered to educate yourself about
the laws of your area of residence.

Dammit, I was *trying* to educate myself, that's why I asked in the
first place! How many voters, of those who even bothered to show up
(Newark Star-Ledger: "Voter turnout, estimated at 30 percent, was the
lowest recorded for a general election in New Jersey history,
officials said." You can't imagine how pissed off I am about that.
Hudson and Essex Counties had about *10%*. A total of *40* students
had voted at Rutgers U.'s polling station with 2 hours to poll
closing. WTF?) would have even thought to make the distinction? Or
even known what Title 19 was? Or where to find it if told about it? Or
understood it if they read it?

Oh, the stem cell research bill was turned down. Short-sighted morons
in this state. Grrr.

Fine, I've decided. I go in there and vote No on question four. I
don't much care if idiots and insane persons get to vote or not,

This is my complete lack of surprise that someone who's basically
confessed to being an idiot when it comes to voting would actually
vote against idiots being allowed to vote. :)

Hey, I'm educable at least, I don't know that "idiot" is the
appropriate assessment... although I'll tell you, I've read some of
the other responses to my post, and there's an old saying in Yiddish:
if three people tell you you're a jackass, go buy a saddle.

Hee haw.

Didn't make a difference anyway, the bill passed 60% to 40%.

Oh yeah, what's that thing at the end of your last sentence? I thought
this was the Monastery.

--
Shalom
.

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