Re: dell vista upgrade license?

On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 15:29:14 -0400, "Tom Scales" <tjscales@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:


"RnR" wrote in message news:n68i13tf5qos0qv6tstco39fkd6qoekbg7@xxxxxxxxxx
On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 12:40:27 -0400, "Tom Scales" <tjscales@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:


"RnR" wrote in message news:vh4i13ho372rvk51jojh49kcmjh2ecoj59@xxxxxxxxxx
On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 11:56:31 -0400, "Tom Scales" <tjscales@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:


"RnR" wrote in message
news:ve0i13dt0al8ngvp27qdsef52jv28p5gpk@xxxxxxxxxx
On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 13:19:28 GMT, Bob Levine
<robjlevin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Tom Scales wrote:


I would be surprised if they ever pursued it.


As would I. I'm firmly against software piracy but I'm much more
concerned about the spirit of an EULA than the letter of it.

Bob


Well put Bob. I agree 99% with it. The only 1% I'm holding out on is
that I still believe if I buy a legal copy of software (regardless of
what the EULA says) feel that I have the right to copy it and use it
in my home as many times as I need to (say for multiple pc's) as long
as it's NOT for profit. I know some disagree with me as well as some
EULA's but that's how I feel. That said, I feel authors perhaps
should price their wares accordingly to allow for this (again how I
feel may not agree with others).


You can't possibly be serious.

They DO price it accordingly to allow for this. Vista has home packs.
So
does Norton.

They are priced higher than an individual license, but cheaper than the
total.

I know you've made this statement before, but there is absolutely no way
that this is anything but stealing.

The fair test is how many CONCURRENT uses. If you are the only person
living in your house and your machines are all turned off except the one
you're using, then you might have an argument. You'd lose, but you'd at
least have an argument. Using them concurrently, then no way.



Tom, to me its analogous to saying if I buy a single bed, only one
person at a time (and maybe only a certain person at that) can use it
unless I buy another. I guess no matter what I say will/will not
change other's minds but I still feel it's NOT stealing (despite what
the EULA says) as long as it is purchased legally and NOT used for
profit (and used in my own home on my own pc/laptops). I guess this
is ONE topic I'm aware of that we STRONGLY disagree.

And yes, I agree I have seen some volume licenses stated as 1-3 which
I hadn't thought about when I posted my previous post. That more or
less is how I feel all EULAs should read. I suppose we could bicker
if 3 is enough but at least the intent of the law is in line with my
feelings.

All I can say is that it is obvious that you never made your money as a
programmer. Only someone that has never seen their work product stolen
could possibly rationalize a bad analogy into stealing.

This is court tested. You are NOT buying Vista. You will NEVER buy
Vista.

You are LICENSING Vista. Whole different ball game. If you want to use
it,
you pay for it.

So, on your theory, do you only buy one set of license plates and then put
copies on your other cars?

Where do you stop? How do you define family? Can I share copies of Vista
with my mother, father, brother, sister, daughter? What if they live in
houses that I own? What if I own an apartment complex? Do all my tenants
get free copies?

Your analogy works for a PURCHASED product. You didn't BUY Vista.

Yes, I feel very strongly about this issue. This is how I have made my
livelihood. I would have made more money if others had not stolen my work
product -- large companies that illegally used our software. Major
companies whose names you would recognize. Yes, that's frustrating to me.

I'll stop now, because true believers like yourself are never swayed by a
little things like truth or ethics.


Give me a break. Just because I don't agree with you, you judge me to
be dishonest. That's not intelligent to do.

I do believe in truth and ethics but it has to be fair to ALL. If
licensing is such as you say, then I don't agree. I should have the
right to do as I want in my "own" home with regard to software (the
one I reside in). I'm not for loaning it out to family if they live
else where even if I own that home. I'm ONLY talking about in the one
home/space I reside in. You are stretching my words into areas I
didn't imply or say. For example, if I lived in an apartment (I
don't) and I had your software for example, I'd want to be able to
install it in my, say pc and laptop in my apartment unit, NOT other
units even if I own them because I don't live in those units.

And you site businesses that stole your software ( and I assume they
were using your multiple copies for profit). If you remember I said
my belief is NOT for the purposes of profit even if used in my home.
Realistically for NON business use at home, I would probably never
want to buy more than one copy of software but allowing me to have it
loaded on more than one pc "at home" concurrently just makes it more
convenient rather than installing it, uninstalling it, installing it
from pc to pc at home. Inotherwords, you aren't losing money from my
multiple copies used at home because I'd never buy more than one copy
of software in the first place, if I intended to use it only at home
and not for profit.

And just because the laws favor your opinion at the moment doesn't
mean they won't change. As years go by, laws do change.

Tom, just because we don't agree doesn't mean I'm dishonest or your
stupid. It just means we don't agree period.

OK, your point is fair, but the reality is that you don't get to interpret
the license agreement.

You accept it and use the software or you don't accept it and you don't use
the software. That's why I mentioned 'court tested'. You can have all the
opinions you want, but that doesn't make it right, legal or ethical. As you
can see, I am passionate about it.

I don't think the speed limit should be 55mph either. I have cars capable
of 170+. Does that mean that my interpretation of the law should prevail
and I can go 170 through my neighborhood? Of course not, as there would be
consequences.

Agree or not, it IS stealing, based on the laws in our country. Do it and
you likely won't get caught, but you'll have to live with the theft. You
don't have the right to interpret a contract.



Tom, I do understand how you feel even if I don't 100% agree. I'll
stop here because we agree and disagree and think we both made points.
No hard feeling of course as I welcome differences of opinion to mine
because I don't claim I'm always correct and on occasion do change my
position.

Changing the subject, have you NOW settled in your new home? Got all
your networking worked out? Better get your vette checked out because
I think it should be capable of greater than 170 mph if my memory
serves me correctly because I had a cousin who once had a 427/390hp
vette and I thought he said it should do 180 (many years ago) ! I
heard that he tested it once on a track and because it didn't get up
to speed, brought it back to Chevy to look at it. I never had to
worry about that issue as I knew my first car was lucky to reach half
that speed (pinto).
.

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