Re: Will Dell OEM Vista install on another Dell PC?

OK, I'll address your points (even though I said I was done with this
thread). I think your analogy is flawed, but we'll use it.

First, the drive home.

Your supposition is that there are no alternatives. For every McDonalds
that dominates, there is a Burger King and a Wendys, or, alternatively, a
Subway and a Quiznos. You may prefer a quarter pounder, but if you are
averse to the McDonalds monopoly, have a Subway sandwich. Less fat too.

The same goes for Windows. It's not Microsoft's fault that there is
momentum for their product. There are alternatives. Some, like OS/2, never
made it successfully (don't start the MS sabotaged it thread, we don't need
to go there for my point). OSX is certainly a legitimate alternative,
particularly if you must have Office, since Microsoft Office is available
for the Mac. There are others to, including the various Linux distros.
Will you like them as much as your quarter pounder? Perhaps not, but it is
your choice. If you don't like McDonalds, then buy OSX. No one at MS is
forcing you to buy their products. Even if it comes on the machine, it's a
small part of the overall cost and you can throw it in the trash.

As for the 15 minute phone call, yes, activation is a pain. Annoying.
Manageable. But think about it. Why IS there activation? Because way too
many people are stealing their products. If McDonalds was losing 50+% of
their sales of quarter pounders to hamburger theives, don't you think they
would put some security in place? Perhaps require ID at the door to come
in? Perhaps, like WalMart, showing your receipt as you exit for big ticket
items? Do you have the same distain for WalMart (or Target or KMart),
because you have to show proof of purchase at the door (or CompUSA for that
matter). Activation is the person at the door checking your receipt. Don't
you think MS would prefer NOT to have to use activation? Think of the
resource they waste for people to write the code, test it and the people
that have to answer the phone. They do it because people steal.

Do you use Photoshop? Their activation is considerably more onerous. No
internet connection, no Photoshop. Do you use Gimp instead, just because of
the activation?

The cost of the media is completely immaterial to the price of the software
too. They have huge development costs to amortize. Even if they didn't, I'm
pretty sure we live in a capitalist society, not a communist one. We're not
all required to donate all our efforts for the benefit of the state. Supply
and Demand sets prices, not the cost of a blank DVD. If you don't like the
price they've set for Vista, don't use it! They could charge $100,000 a
copy if they wanted. They wouldn't sell any, but last time I checked, if I
develop a product, I get to set the price. If I get rich in the process,
well, that's the American way and more power to the developer of something
cool. If their product is getting stolen, then I support their efforts to
stop the theft, even at my inconvenience.

If I was going to complain about a monopoly, it would be the oligopoly of
the oil companies. The price at every station on a corner is the same.
That's collusion. Don't you find it mysterious that prices for gas are
rising as we enter the summer driving season? Did the gas that is already
in the refinery tanks suddenly cost Exxon more? Of course not, they are
just ripping us off because we don't have a choice. It's not like we're all
going to convert our cars to propane and even if we did, the same oil
companies would jack us around. Microsoft is small potatoes in the 'ripping
off customers' arena. $200 for Vista is trivial.

OK, I'm out of energy. I've been moving boxes for two days and am tired.

Tom



"Christopher Muto" <muto@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:pOaLh.13823$tD2.1687@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
you ignore my points and ask me more questions. a disucssion is a two way
street. i am not esting in continuing since you are being genuine about
this dialog.

"Tom Scales" <tjscales@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:45fc7cca$0$25983$c3e8da3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I thought your analogy fell apart in the first sentence :)

Ok, I respect your comments on the newsgroup and the help you give
others. Explain to me in your words why it is OK it steal a software
product. Not necessarily Windows, because emotions come into that, but
any software product. Perhaps one from some struggling software
developer working part-time on it.

Because the argument is exactly the same whether it is the guy in the
garage or Microsoft. Just because someone may not like Bill Gates or
Microsoft doesn't change the argument AT ALL.

Justify stealing for me.

Tom
"Christopher Muto" <muto@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:3N_Kh.13682$tD2.6822@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
that's your comeback?
you ignored all of the relevant points.
but i think we both already know your position on this subject.
a nail only sees a hammer as a solution.

"Tom Scales" <tjscales@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:45fc2e7a$0$10991$c3e8da3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
But we're not talking about the worker stealing the hamburgers, are we?
We're talking about the customer paying for one hamburger and stealing
four more.


"Christopher Muto" <muto@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:qfUKh.13564$tD2.2335@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
if the worker was stealing hamburgers he would be fired.
if the restaurant required that i make a 15 minute telephone call for
permission before i could eat my hamburger because the car i was
driving when i bought it crashed on my way home, or required that i
eat it only in the particular car i happened to use when i picked it
up at the drive through window then i would only buy that hamburger if
there was no other restaurant to go to. in this case there really is
not another restaurant to buy the hamburger given the momentum and
critical mass that this one has achieved.
i understand that there are development costs with software, and that
developers need to get paid in order to be motivated to continue
research and development, but the fact remains that the marginal cost
of producing software is next to zero (the cost of a cd), and despite
the ever increasing installed base of computers the price of operating
system software has not decreased. and the monopolistic nature of
operating system software remains unregulated when every other
industry with monopolistic tendencies is. something is wrong with this
picture, and it is larger than just the people making copies of things
that they did not legitimately purchase.

"Tom Scales" <tjscales@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:45fbccf1$0$11003$c3e8da3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

"Journey" <rainbow@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:r70nv2d56fup85tnplv9aope75s1vsfm12@xxxxxxxxxx
On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 20:57:17 -0400, "Tom Scales"
<tjscales@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

And yes, I understand the irony that it is coming from someone that
can
write a check for whatever he wants. Where do you think my money
came from?

I worked HARD at it. Many years of 100 hour weeks, busting my ass.
In the
software industry.

On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 20:44:28 -0500, Journey <rainbow@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

I too was a software professional in various roles including systems
analyst, DBA, data analyst (there is a difference but my
responsibilities were combined), trainer, etc., and put in my time
too.

Actually, this kind of stuck with me. Many people struggling to
make
it flipping burgers at McDonald's put in their time as much as an IT
CIO or DBA.

Just because they were born in a different environment, with fewer
lucky breaks, or with certain DNA doesn't make them more or less
worthy.

A single mother struggling to raise 3 kids can be as much or more of
a
hero than an NFL quarterback (and certainly more heroic or competant
than a US President).

So, I'll opt out of my "I put in my time too" statement. Almost
everyone is putting in their time in order to survive in this world.
I
am no more or less worthy than most people.

And neither is someone who busted his ass in the software industry.

OK, so let's talk about the McD's kid. Would his job last long if
50% of the hamburgers he flipped were stolen? Don't you think that
McDonalds might go out of business?

Who cares about what you do for a living? I used software developer
as an example because 1) it is what I used to do and 2) we were
talking about stealing software.

Next discussion I'm in about stealing hamburgers, maybe I'll use a
different example.













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