Re: Dell versus Asus?
- From: "Patrick L. Parks" <1H8Comcast@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 16:51:52 -0400
Leythos wrote:
In article <iNadnWQACfN0SXrfRVn-3g@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, 1H8Comcast@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx says...
While I do enjoy building my own machines and do from time to time, I completely disagree with the concept that you can buy the same parts which "will" perform better and will cost less. By the time you factor in all of the things needed (case, power supply, operating system, etc) you cannot hardly buy a machine for less cost than a packaged system like the Dell.
Then you don't know enough about buying parts and don't know where to get the best deals on quality parts.
The thing I really like about Dell is that my computer is nearly silent. For me, this is a big deal. My self built systems have always been considerably louder. In terms of name brand parts, my machine has them.
It has nothing to do with Dell and hardly anything to do with any vendors systems - the PSU and FANs are controlled by the motherboard and the PSU sensor. If you want a quite system you just need a system that changes the speed of the fan based on temp and a fan that has RPM feedback. Each of the whitebox computers I've ordered/spec'd in the last two years have quite fan assemblies, it's very easy to spec if you understand what you are doing. Oh, and not all Dell systems are quite.
Even though it's a Dell, it has Intel processor (3.2ghz), Seagate Hard Drive, ATI Radeon X800XT video card, 1GB of RAM (PC4200) and Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS sound card. I bought it with XP Pro and got a 17" flat panel monitor and barely have over $1200 in the machine.
I bought a 3.2ghz P4 w/HT, 1GB RAM, 6 channel sound card, 1GB NIC, Windows XP Professional, Office 2003 Prof, 80GB SATA Drive, DVD+/-RW drive, keyboard, mouse, and a 256MB PCIx 8x video card (DVI and SVGA connectors/cables), in an Fancy case, 2 fans (speed controlled) and an nice Antec 500w PSU), without the monitor, delivered (including tax/shipping) for $1299. The 19" LCD panel we ordered was a nice unit, but it ran about $500 since we bought the higher end of the line we wanted, I could have got a 17" LCD without DVI connector for about $250.
In February of 2005, you could not buy these parts and make it cheaper. I'll bet you that my machine is quieter and can outperform anything hand built for $1250 or less (office apps, gaming, compiling software, and recompiling a linux kernel).
I bet you don't know what you are talking about - the above system is very close to the same price you paid (considering we also bought Office 2003 Prof) and performs as well if not better.
Now, if you want to get into reality, it's always been easy to get the same hardware costs, but most of us buy better quality which costs a little more. The area that Dell gets most home builders is when it comes to Warranty and Software - but, if you look hard enough, you can get OEM software (which is what Dell provides) for the same reasonable price that Dell sells it to you for).
Oh, when it comes to higher-end systems, it's a BIG difference in cost. I can duplicate a Dual or Quad Xeon box with the same spec's, including the same rack-mount, and be about 1/3 the cost of a Dell - including the software.
Couple of thoughts (with regards to my not knowing any better)
1. You mention a 6 channel sound card. A lot of motherboards can do 6 channel sound. I just checked Newegg and you "can" get a 6 channel PCI sound card for $7.49. I specifically said a genuine Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS.
2. I realize that Newegg is not the absolute cheapest company in the world....but they are competitive. A legit copy of Office 2003 Pro for OEM is nearly $300. A legit copy of Windows XP Pro OEM is nearly $150. So, if this was $450 of your $1299, that means the rest of the computer parts only cost you $849. I'm sure you will come back with some ridiculous low price for those two peices of software, but if you certainly buy from a legit outfit, you are gonna pay closer to what I quoted above, unless you buy in MASS quantities, which the average joe just isn't going to do.
3. The cost of hard drives isn't much, but my hard drive was 160GB versus the 80 that you mentioned. Again, not much of a difference here.
4. You mention a 256MB PCIx 8x video card with AGP and DVI. If you are truly a computer guy, or a gamer, you must know "as I do" that a video card is not just a video card. I specifically said an ATI Radeon X800XT 256MB PCIx video card. This card alone is gonna set you back $400 or so. I'll happily challenge you video wish to a generic card with 256MB RAM and absolutely blow your doors off.
5. I did forget that my system came with a 8x DVD reader and a DVD+/-RW supporting dual formats. Again, these things are both very cheap.
6. You mention a PCI Express 8X video card. Could you please explain what you mean by the 8x? For somebody who doesn't know what they are talking about, I do know that the 4x/8x ratings are for AGP video cards, not PCI Express.
7. With regards to fan noise, while the power supply does make a difference to overall fan noise, my Dell is quiet because they don't have to use a fan on the motherboard chipset or the CPU. Dell strictly uses a cooling tower on the P4 @ 3.2. All self built systems usually are bought with clunky loud fans. Granted, better fans are totally available, if you are trying to build a system cheap, you aren't investing $50+ for a CPU cooler.
8. I agree, most people do buy nicer hardware and it does cost more. My point was that the Dell I spec'd out, did have nice hardware. Genuine Sound Blaster Audigy 2, a seagate hard drive, an ATI Radeon X800XT. The system you gave me specs on just said 6 channel sound and a some video card with 256MB of RAM. Like I said, I would be more than happy to benchmark against you. Go out and run something like SiSoft Sandra or 3dmark 2005 and give me your numbers.
9. Any of the Dell desktops that I have used in the last two years are very quiet. I have Optiplex GX150's, Optiplex GX260's, GX270's and GX280's, as well as Dimension 4550's, 4600's and 8400's which are all nearly silent. The cooling fan on my video card is the loudest part of these systems. If you are talking about Dell servers........well then servers should NOT be quiet. They need cooling and quiet performance should not even be a consideration on a server. I'm talking strictly desktops.
With regards to high-end equipment;
I never made a mention of server equipment....manufacturers versus building your own. I work in a server environment and we have approx 350 rack mount servers. All Compaq/HP and IBM's. With servers, you pay for service. We have 4 hour or faster response time on everything we own. For us, downtime means lost revenue. Handbuilding a server with commodity parts is just not worth the risk to our business. And I can count on 1 hand the number of HP Proliant DL 380 Gen 1, Gen2, Gen3 and Gen 4's that we have had fail in the past 3 years. We might be paying more than we have to, but these things are rock/solid stable.
I just like trying to set the record staight for people who read these forums. While I agree you can build a great computer and get exactly what you want for a decent price, it's hard if not nearly impossible to beat the deals that Dell has to offer. It's not fair to slam a Dell simply because it is a Dell.
.
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- From: Patrick L. Parks
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