Re: [OT] my oppressor is bigger than your oppressor

Màck©® wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 13:52:26 -0500, Tim Daneliuk
<tundra@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Greed and crime has been common across all of human history
long before there was any Christian church. Moreover, it
was people of faith (various flavors) that were the ones to
sound the trumpet for change on moral grounds in issues such
as slavery. It was not the atheists of the 19th century that
drove the abolition movement, it was the devoutly religious.

it was both religious and atheist who did.

The atheists were a very small minority in this movement.
The motive force for abolition was rooted in religious conscience.

Yes, some people of religious faith acted badly. So too did

In south of the USA slavery was backed by the christian church just as
appartied was backed in south africa by the christian church.

Hebrews, muslims, christians, all owned slaves and used religion as

So did atheists, skeptics, and agnostics. What's your point?
Up until abolition in Western Democracies in the 18th Century,
slavery was common through *all* of human history and experience.
But ... it was people of religious faith whose collective conscience
finally caught up with them and who fought to abolish it.

pretty much everyone else at various points in history. But
it has largely been the religious devout that have been the
motive change for moral improvement.

no, when the religious devout are publicly humilated they sometimes
seek to change.

You're interpretation of history is entertaining but disconnected
from factual reality. The religious devout called *each other* to
moral rectitude on the matter of slavery. The larger society resisted
it. There was not some external embarrassment of the religious
that caused them to act in favor of abolition.

The religious indoctrination was not payment for the labor.
If Either (the religion or the slavery) had been removed, the other
would have continued.
forced religious indoctrination is a very christian behavior, as well
as muslim and other religions. It gaurunteed control of the

You mean as opposed to the indoctrination so currently popular?
Several examples:

- Earth worshiping pantheism masquerading as established science
in the form of "Climate Change".

- The teaching that science is sufficient to answer all
questions that have answers - a common implicit belief in the
secular academy.

- The elevation of animals to being the moral equals of humans.

Secularism too is a kind of belief system. It is a very secularist
behavior to indoctrinate the uneducated in order to control them ...

it's apparent that you have bought into a lot of propaganda.

It's apparent I've read considerably more history than you ... and understood