Re: Interesting Results - Taco Bell

Kurt <kurtwheeling1965@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Dec 8, 10:21???pm, Alan S <loralgtweightandca...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 21:56:53 -0800 (PST), Kurt
<kurtwheeling1...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

And again, I'm pretty surprised that the ???posters who are so hellbent
on telling everyone they need to test at 1 hour because of the "spike"
are the same ones who eat mostly protein and fat which always delays a
spike anyway. ???Their advice doesn't ring true, for themselves, or the
people they are pushing it on. ???It's beyond me why people are trying
to bully Lerp into believing he is doing something wrong.

Kurt
Type 1

Just a minor correction. You left something very important
out of your sig.

You can be snarky all you want, add sigs, or change every subject line
because of your obesessive compulsive netnanny disorder but you still
have not addressed the issue here: Why do you criticize and bully
people into your ideology of testing at 1 hour when you advocate the
higher fat and higher protein diet? The spike wouldn't come at 1
hour. It makes no sense other than you are wrong and just don't want
to admit it.

I know you don't understand maths, so let me try to explain this to
you in words.

You're right, fat delays a BG peak by slowing the rate of
absorption. Let's take a pile of carbs which peak a T2 at one hour and
add fat. The rate of arrival of the glucose into the bloodstream is
delayed, so there is the same total amount, but spread out over a
longer time. Since the T2 pancreas is generating insulin at the same
defective rate, the whole graph is thus flattened out over a longer
time period. So the peak comes later, lets say at one and a half
hours, and is, let's say, half the size, and the ramp up to it is,
let's say, half as steep.

Now let's suppose our hypothetical T2 simply cuts the pile of carbs in
half without eating any fat. The ramp will have the same steepness as
before (same defective rate of insulin supply) but because there is
less BG to deal with the peak will be earlier, let's say at 30
mins. Now let's add fat to it. This will flatten out the graph,
pushing the reduced peak later, let's say now peaking at 45 mins.

So here we have a case where *replacing* carbs with fat leads to an
earlier peak of 45mins instead of one hour although *adding* fat leads
to a later peak of one and a half hours. In each case the added fat
delayed the peak by 50%, but the reduced carbs more than compensated
for the difference.

Of course this is all hypothetical speculation. Is there any evidence
to support it? Well, if you build a simple spread*** model based on
the the experimental data of BG reduction by defective T2 insulin
supply as reported in research studies it will behave like that. But
simulations always beg some questions. As scientists sometimes
gloomily observe, simulations are doomed to work :-)

The crucial point is that some T2s posting here have reported that
after going low carb, i.e. *replacing* some carbs with fats, their
peaks moved to an earlier time. Even more have reported that their
peaks stayed in the same place. I can't recall anyone having reported
that after changing to a low carb diet they found their peaks had
shifted later. But it wouldn't surprise me if there a few.

So there is experimental confirmation that this effect, which we
should expect if we *replace* carbs with fat instead of *adding* fat,
does not necessarily always move the peak later, and definitely
sometimes moves it earlier. And since low carbers are not surprisingly
*lowering* their carbs, this effect should be noticed in low
carbing. It should be at it's strongest in those T2s who have the
largest insulin capacity left (appropriately adjusted by insulin
resistance of course).

There is a newsgroup in which these kinds of results are reported. I
recommend that you read it. It's called alt.support.diabetes.

This effect of *replacing* carbs with fats sometimes giving an earlier
peak is a special feature of T2s trying use d&e for control. The
effect is a natural consequence of having a pancreas which can still
supply insulin, but not enough for normal control. It's a result of
combining a low carb diet with an insufficient insulin supply.

In a T1 who is properly calculating and timing insulin dosages this
effect will not be noticed. Maybe you're generalising incorrectly from
your own T1 experiences?

Note that I've simplified by leaving insulin resistance out of
this. I'll leave it as a homework exercise for you to speculate on
which direction the peaks would move if you added insulin resistance
to my story above :-)

--
Chris Malcolm cam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

.

Loading