Re: Grains at the root of NIDDM and the diseases of civilization


"Jackie Patti" <jpatti@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:46c099a8$0$22479$470ef3ce@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Gantlet wrote:
the difference between the 2 diets is not really in that low carbers eat
more broccoli
or that those on low fat do not eat broccoli and other veggies.
the real difference is Fat vs Whole Grain.
fruits and veggies are carbs - for me that means I get about 130 carbs a
day from just fruits and veggies
thats more than many low carbers eat.

That may be true for you, Gantlet. But I do not think most people doing
low-fat eat 130g of carb in fruit and veggies. Most are more likely to
get their carbs in bagels, pasta and sugar.


When we are actually thinking something its important to understand
that sometimes what we think is a total guess.
and if they are eating only flour and sugar they are not eating
a diet anyone would say is healthy.


And that brings up a very good point, in that I think eating large doses
of fresh produce is much more important to health overall than the
macronutrient content of the diet.

Look at a big bowl of mixed salad vegetables as an example. Those veggies
have very few calories, so they don't count much towards macronutrient
percentages. The dressing has most of the calories so determines the
macronutrient breakdown. My SIL would tend to put a sweeter, low-fat
dressing on it, so her salad would be a "low fat" meal. I would tend to
put a dairy-based dressing on it, so my salad would be a "low carb" meal.
The rest of our family would tend to skip the salad and eat something else
instead. I don't think whether they'd eat a burger or potatoes is nearly
as significant as the fact that they skipped the salad.


Sorry to say that a of people look at salad as meaningless.
the other day my wife and I went out to eat. We shared a salad
and each had our own lil :) lunch. for desert we shared another salad :).





No, we did not have chickens before I was diabetic, we've only lived in
the country for 5-6 years now. It was two decades ago that I was first
diagnosed.

20 years wow. where did you come from and do you miss the farm?
I live in the big city but have the heart of a country boy.


I can remember individual things I ate, but not my overall diet as it's
simply too far back. And I was busy raising a baby and being in college
and paid almost no attention to diet except for the cost of groceries.

yes its not that easy to not make a total guess out of it in those care free
days.
but my diet was what I would call a High Diet.. High in Carbs, Fat and
Protien.

I was in college as a single mom, so there's things like fasting for 6-8
days at a time in order to have enough to feed my daughter that occured
periodically.

wow thank god I never had to do that. these days I keep my dogs nice and
plump :).



I know we didn't eat much sugar, cause I cooked mostly from scratch, cause
I couldn't afford prepared foods much. Typical desserts for us were
things like rice pudding or gingerbread, both made from scratch. Rice and
flour are very cheap calories. But I didn't have a lot of time for
cooking, between school and parenting, so desserts just didn't happen
much.

i would put lots of sugar in my coffee and my cereal. Desserts :)
I live in Manhattan and could have had anything I wanted and often did.

And a lot of hamburger-helper-type dishes, but with ground turkey instead,
as that was dead cheap back then . It's more expensive now as it's become
popular with the low-fat emphasis, but back then you could get it dirt
cheap. I could make a HUGE pot of something to feed us for days out of
only a pound of turkey.

somethings remind me of when I was growing up. it was my mother and us 4
hungry kids.
and poor Muffin eating her playdoe like gains burgers :(.



I also know there are certain foods I shall never eat again because we
overdid them then. Plain spaghetti is one - I can handle other pasta
shapes, but not the one that. I shall also never eat bologna or hot dogs
again for the same reason. But nothing is as bad as boxed macaroni and
cheese, no degree of politeness could ever get me to eat even a single
bite of that again.

after I grew up and left the house I had a few roommates 2 of which were
brothers.
they would eat bologna everyday, every meal. if we went to a BBQ someone
would also crack a joke with them
saying they would throw some bologna on the BBQ just for them. because they
would always say thats all they eat cause they liked it. truth is when they
didnt have bologna in their hands they had a straw up their nose.

I do not see the ADA recommending actual whole grains though. People
SAY whole grains, but then provide diet examples that have no whole grains
in them.

the number 1 thing a newbe should do when following a low fat diet is
working with a dietitian.





And it's difficult to even find them.

whole grains are great but there are other healthy choices, beans, rice



Steel cut oats are not *whole* grains. They are *cut* grains. Granted,
they are less refined than most grain sources, but they're not whole.




The "whole grains" studies specifically compared diets of whole grains to
diets containing more refined grains and found that whole grains were
better. This makes all the sense in the world as whole grains do not
oxidize (which is also why they keep forever). Once you cut, roll or
grind grains, the studies no longer apply - you're on the side of the
study that was found less healthy, refined grains.

i dont think those in the less healthy side ate steel cut oats.
Yes I eat steel cut oats and even bran cereal sometimes for breakfast.
and for me that works better than bacon and eggs.

I was thinking of you last night, Tom.

its been a long time since i heard that.

I am reading the book "Pumping
Insulin" which has a chapter on calculating the amount of carbs you need
to add *or* insulin you need to reduce for various levels of exercise.
They call these Excarbs. Very interesting stuff.

For me, as I heal up from the surgeries and increase my activity level,
I'd rather reduce the insulin than increase the carbs though. I have hope
of getting off insulin again someday, so that's more of a motivating
factor than the ability to eat grain or potatoes, which are rather bland,
boring foods anyways.

I hope you continue to get better. I am on day 2 of not smoking :)

Tom


.

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