Re: Is a prescription needed to buy test strips?

Chris Malcolm <cam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in part:

Ozgirl <are_we_there_yet@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

"BillW50" <BillW50@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"Ozgirl" wrote in message
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Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 08:09:37 +1000

"Jim Chinnis" <jchinnis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"BillW50" <BillW50@xxxxxxx> wrote in part:

If you look at the recent study of young supposed normal people
living at home and wearing continuous bg monitors, it looks to me,
just eyeballing, that maybe a third or more of the 21 subjects
exceeded 140 mg/dl after breakfast.

How do they know they are normal? I was young and skinny when I was
having RH. No signs of Metabolic syndrome at all but never the less I
had glucose control problems or I wouldn't be having the RH. A
pancreas has a job to do and that job is to start the phase i
response very quickly and phase ii comes in to finish the job. If the
bg's are rising to 140 then the job isn't being done. Therefore IMO
these people can't be "normal". IGT at best.

You are not young and skinny anymore Ozgirl?

I am "older" and skinny but have been fat in between.

And yes! I too question what they call normal in that study as well. At
least 30% of them is what I would call questionable as far as normal.
Although 50% of them I am okay with calling normal as far as I know. And
one is clearly reactive hypoglycemia. I am so surprised they called them
all normal. <sigh>

I have been maintaining my stance about so-called normal for years and I
probably will never find out how they know these people are normal. I cannot
see them doing expensive tests on large numbers of people to be
categorically able to say they are normal.

In science it is often too difficult to measure what you really want
to measure, so instead you measure something that's probably
correlated with it that is more easily determined, and you then hope
that in a large enough study there'll be enough correlation for the
information you want to come out of the statistics.

Normal healthy unimpaired BG control not only can't easily be
determined but raises a number of as yet unanswered research
questions. So they substitute in its stead those who are show no signs
of easily detectable BG control pathologies.

Unfortunately that has misled some people into thinking that a
population which shows no signs of easily detectable BG control
pathologies is in fact a population of people with normal healthy
unimpaired BG control. It's not, it's a statistically acceptable
stand-in for epidemiological purposes.

Yes. I think we need to look at the meaning of "normal" in this (I think
very good) study. The point was to go out into the "apparently healthy,"
young, normal weight, population for testing. Then those were eliminated
who, to the experimenters at least, showed any signs of diabetes or
prediabetes (a1c and fbg). Those people who passed became the test group.

I think it's a very good "normal' group, but only in the sense that it
probably captured a snapshot of what young, healthy, normal weight people in
Germany are like today. It doesn't imply that they won't develop DM, heart
disease, obesity, or anything else.

To those who argue that going above 140 mg/dl bg after an oral glocose
tolerance test or after a high carb breakfast (which can easily exceed 100 g
of sugar/starch), I'm not so sure. Why would the human pancreas have evolved
to handle such loads without a hiccup? Such a load would have been an
extreme rarity until the agricultural age began and grain began to be
harvested. Our ancestors, whose genome we carry, developed as
hunter-gatherers and had little need for handling frequent high-carb meals.
There has to be an upper limit to what the beta cells are designed to handle
in a "normal" person.

Even fruit in the wild is scrawny and much less sweet than our commercial
fruit today. I'm sure pre-agricultural man occasionally came upon fruit and
managed a bg spike, but that hardly compares with having a white-flour bagel
the size of a dinner plate every morning. (I actually suspect early man
mostly sought out fruit that had fermented and lost most of its sweetness,
for obvious reasons...)
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
.

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