Re: Does sugar/grains cause diabetes? (was Re: How many lies can fit in one paragraph?)


"Tim Shoppa" <shoppa@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1180549308.621906.173320@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On May 30, 12:12 pm, Susan <neverm...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes

Julie Bove wrote:
Doesn't hold true for me. My diet upon diagnosis was very low in fat
of any
kind, high in fiber and full of whole grains.

Mine, too. Ornish diet.

Getting away from all the medical papers and into personal issues: do
either of you believe that your diet was the sole cause of your
insulin resistance/diabetes? A primary cause? A trigger?

Ok, I have the same background as Susan and Julie - that is eating high
fibre, high carb, low fat diet before diabetes. That kind of diet
exacerbated the insulin resistance problem. The IR is there long before the
type 2 diagnosis. One needs to understand about IR and hyperinsulemia and
the reaction of high carb foods on a system with those problems. In a
nutshell when an insulin resistant person eats carbs, depending on the
level, the faulty pncreas works hard to produce the insulin needed to cover
the bg rise. Remember, type 2's have no (or poor) 1st phase insulin response
(the response that kicks in within 10 minutes of a meal starting). So the
pressure is on the 2nd phase response. But as we also have insulin
resistance we end with a lot of extra insulin in the body but it can't do
it's job (because of the resistance). Hyperinsulemia in iteself is also a
major risk for cardiovascular problems, just as hyperglycemia is. So now we
have a twofold problem, hyperinsulemia and hyperglycemia. The more we flog
our pancreas the worse everything becomes and eventually the pancreas just
gives up the ghost.

For type 2's insulin alone is not a remedy for this problem. Depending on
the amount of resistance, massive amounts of insulin may be needed
exogenously and still may not do the job and further exacerbates the
hyperinsulemia.

The obvious thing that stimulates insulin production in the first place is
carbs. Diabetes is a carbohydrate metabolism disorder. Not rocket science.
What many type 2's here do is to attempt to curb the amount of work the
pancreas needs to do. i.e. lower their carbs to a point where hyperinsulemia
is not a problem. This has an effect of keeping the bg's more even, lower
and cuts the risk of complications enormously. What some type 1's do not
understand is that we literally cannot eat the amount of carbs that most
dieticians, doctors and diabetic associations recommend. It also annoys me
that the same, and usually better nutrition can be found in other foods with
much lower carbs. No one needs to lack essential nutrients. Unfortunately
professionals are stuck in a train of thought and won't let go. It is also
of no use to criticise people for not jumping on the treadmill after a high
carb meal (rather than curbing the carbs) because the pancreas flogging has
already started. Some people don't understand that. Exericse is very
important and can bring down the bg's after a meal, no doubt about that but
that's not the whole problem. The overworking of the pancreas and the
hyperinsulemia is also a major part.

Given the dangers of creating a hyperinsulemic situation I find it very
aggravating to have someone cocnsistently push the virtues of high carb
diets to a set of people who cannot tolerate it. It's not just a whim where
one day we woke up and decided to not eat so many carbs. It was born out of
research and personal experimentation. There are some wonderfully
knowledgable people in here in regards to nutrition and the pathogenesis and
pathophysiology of type 2 diabetes. Why we can't just be left to our own
devices is beyond me. Most of it comes out of ignorance and unwillingness to
learn about type 2 and its multitude of problems.

I don't feel guilty, my kind of diet was one pushed by most health
organisations around the world. Back then trans fats were almost unheard of,
sat fat was the big "killer", yet it is now known that excess carbs cause
high triglycerides (even in non diabetics), another major cardiovascular
risk. I can't exactly blame anyone for the diet because it was based on
knowledge of the time. Knowledge has progressed, advice hasn't caught up
with the new paradigm shift. That point bugs me no end. A lot of the
medical profession are still stuck back in the all fats are bad time. Now of
course, low fat is not advocated by the more aware professionals because
there are many health providing fats that the body needs, fats a lot of
people aren't getting because the information is trickling down to the
health organisations way too slowly. The information is there, no one wants
to be the first to take that little step.

Interesting is the views of Dr Christiaan Barnard, the pioneer of the first
succesful heart transplants. I read a book of his recently and his views
about heart health were very much in line with what researchers are now
finding to be true - and the book was written years ago. A slap in the face
for the traditional train of thought about the necessity of low fat high HF
carb diets.

You can flame me for asking the above questions, they're not easy
questions, they're also questions I've always avoided personally. I do
not ask them lightly.

I can blame myself for becoming obese but my genetic pre-disposition for
type 2 diabetes was always there, I just didn't have the knowledge back then
on how to prevent it. But I'll give you a clue. The prevention wouldn't have
involved low fat high carb diet.

.

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