Re: Anybody had luck with a High Carb Plant based diet

<randy@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1177982944.761045.101700@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Apr 30, 6:45 pm, "J.C. Hartmann" <j...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
r...@xxxxxxx wrote:

<discussion about conflict of interest snipped>


4. A mild curiosity became more pressing a couple of weeks ago when I
bought a Walgreen's meter and discovered I'm definitely pre-diabetic.
I joined the group I posted a question about the contradiction about
the High Carb/Low Carb thing. I thought you guys would have resolved
this long ago but I was mistaken. My impression was that most weren't
even aware that there was research showing benifits of the High Carb
thing.

<discussion about conflict of interest snipped>

6. Anyway scrap the Banard study, here's what I should have opend
with.
I don't think most here would think these results are possible,
but I'm sure many will say they knew it all along

Thanks for give me the opertunity to clarify my position

High-carbohydrate, high-fiber diets for insulin-treated men with
diabetes mellitus.Anderson JW, Ward K.

<snipped article abstract>

PMID: 495550 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Hi randy,
thanks for the article
Very interesting

I red the article and I would like to make a few remarks and suggestions.
First the author seems very intrigated by the effect of fiber.So he calls
this diet a high fiber diet and even invents the abbriviation : HF for
it.The article is from 1979 so a bit old.I think it was before the time that
the mechanism by which indigestible fiber influences bg was discovered.The
author actually states this (See below)

So my suggestion would be that this is not a high carbohydrate diet but a
high _fiber_ diet.I would like to suggest to you that this type of diet
works through the incretin hormones.From my personal experience I know that
a diet very high in fiber , moderate in carbohydrate and higher in protein
and fat works better than the high fiber high carbohydrate version.

Here are a few quotes from the article :

Addition of plant fibers to the diets of
patients with diabetes is accompanied by significant
reductions in postprandial hyperglycemia
(19, 20). Diets containing generous
amounts of plant fiber are associated with
significant reductions in the quantity of glucose
excretion in the urine (21).

Combining a generous intake of plant fibers
with a high-carbohydrate diet might be
of distinct benefit in the management of certam
patients with diabetes. The usefulness of
high-carbohydrate, high plant fiber diets
(HCF) in treating patients with diabetes has
not been evaluated carefully.


The influence of large amounts of dietary
fiber on glucose metabolism in these studies
is unclear. In meal-feeding experiments, highfiber
meals were accompanied by significantly
lower postprandial glucose values than
observed after fiber-free meals (19). Two
groups have investigated the influence of
feeding moderate to large amounts of plant
fiber for 5, 7, or 10 days (20, 21). Jenkins et
al. (21) observed that when 25 g of guar gum
were added to the diet of six lean, insulintreated
individuals for a period of 5 to 7 days,
urine glucose values were reduced to approximately
half of values on the control diet.

Our studies suggest that HCF diets may be
the therapy of choice for certain patients with
the maturity-onset type of diabetes. These
studies do not reveal how much carbohydrate
or how much plant fiber is required to induce
these beneficial effects on carbohydrate and
lipid metabolism. While these diets containing
70% carbohydrate and 65 g of plant fiber
are palatable and can easily be prepared in a
metabolic kitchen, patients have difficulty
duplicating these diets at home. Therefore,
after patients have demonstrated a favorable
response to these diets in the hospital we
instruct them in maintenance diets containing

hth
Gys


.

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