Re: Grains

This post not CC'd by email
On 19 Mar 2006 05:56:54 -0800, "Anil" <navkal@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Good day Guentin,

I enclosed the URL of original article just so that any one more
interested can read the study itself.
The only reason I even went to this study was because it was sited by
Harvard Public Health. (Ref: http://tinyurl.com/klvrl). The reason why
I did not quote more from the study was because I felt the conclusion
section was more than obvious in stating what dietary habits "may"
lead to T2DM. No where in the study or for that matter any research I
have done I have come across findings that say "not" eating fish
and poultry will result in increasing one's chances of getting T2DM.

G'day G'day Anil,

As one of the most sincere vegans to post here, I have considerable
respect for you, especially as a person. That makes it all the more
important to question you when you "find evidence" to support your
chosen lifestyle. The "prudent" diet as outlined in this particular
bit of research as close to what most folks here practice as it is to
the vegan diet. Another conclusion you could have drawn is that,
folks here have gotten it about right. Eat vegetables, fruit, fish,
poultry, whole grains. We could all then have a merry old time arguing
about the details but none of us could say that the research supported
our diet more than the "prudent" diet.

FWIIW, there is evidence that low fat dairy REDUCES the risk of
developing T2 diabetes. The path of cause and effect are open to
conjecture. Conjecture is conjecture and rather like opinions we all
have them. Mine are unlikely to agree with yours.

Having said this here is more from the same study that given me
personally the comfort that I am on the right path.

Notice what you are doing. Be aware of it. Some of us are searching
for the best objective path to dealing with T2. You are seeking
support for a subjective path. The results will be different.

I don't expect every one to feel so comfortable with that conclusion.
Each one of us has to independently arrive at some path we they feel
we can handle for rest of the life.

Good point. We are amongst the ultimate consumers of our decisions.
Our children and people we live with are also affected.

Any way here is the some more excerpts from that same
study that talks to your objection.

"We also examined whether consumption of specific foods
with large contributions to the dietary-pattern scores was
associated with the risk for type 2 diabetes.

Of the foods that characterized the prudent pattern,
whole grains had the strongest inverse association
with the risk for type 2 diabetes (multivariate relative
risk for extreme quintiles, 0.77 [CI, 0.64 to 0.93];
P 0.001 for trend).

Now that is interesting and highly relevant to all readers.
It would be interesting to compare the relative risk figures for
refined grains. Before getting too excited we need to be sure the
favourable results from whole grain aren't simply that refined grain
consumption is really bad.

Consumption of fruit, vegetables, and fish was not
appreciably associated with the risk for type 2 diabetes.
(Anil Ed: either higher or lower)

Fish is likely to be neutral. It appears to me to be the least likely
form of animal protein to cause problems except of course for those
who are allergic to the specific proteins or pollute their rivers,
estuaries and coastal waters and wonder why they have problems.

The fruit and vegetable results might well be pretty meaningless to
many folks here. Fruit would include bananas and other tropical
fruit. Vegetables would be heavily weighted towards potato. The
research tells us nothing meaningful about what happens when people
restrict their fruit to berries and temperate climate fruit and their
vegetables to high water content relatively low carb vegetables. If
they had specifically mentioned broccoli or cauliflower consumption I
might even have felt a tinge of excitement over the findings.

The foods with major contributions to the western
pattern were all positively associated with the risk
for type 2 diabetes. (The relative risks for extreme
quintiles were: for unprocessed red meat..)"

Wishing you the best as always,

Anil
T2

Best wishes,

--
Quentin Grady ^ ^ /
New Zealand, >#,#< [
/ \ /\
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin
.

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