Re: OT - Budd's rants - was (Re: Aspertame is totally safe)

On Fri, 2 Dec 2005 08:10:31 -0700, "Budd Cochran"
<mr-d150@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Huffed and Puffed the following into the
madness of usenet:


you revealed a bit more of yourself in this post than you realized
Budd.

>> >>
>> >> lol, you do make me laugh dear. You do see so much of yourself in me.
>> >
>> >"dear"???? I am not homosexual.
>>
>> I never said you were dear. your fears and insecurities are showing
>> again.
>
>Then learn to use better punctuation and grammar, the spellchecker is
>failing you.


nope, I clearly did not call you a homosexual, that was your untruth.
And the fact you gave a totally different accusation as to why I said
that to Diana clearly shows that you lied.

>> >> >Why do you put limitations on forgiveness?
>> >>
>> >> my not apologizing to you is not the same as my not forgiving you.
>> >> those are two separate things.
>> >
>> >It's not your forgivness toward me that I'm talking about. My statement
>was
>> >that a mature person wouldn't deliberately call someone something to
>insult
>> >them except in anger, or hatred. That you have done in disrespect of my
>> >beliefs.
>>
>> as you have done in disrespect of everyone's beliefs that differ from
>> your own.
>
>No, Mack, I gave a few Scriptures to show my beliefs and that was
>disrespecting others?

You have called people, hypocrites, athiests(when they were not),
other names. So you went far beyond the initial posts where a couple
of years back you actually quoted scripture out of context without
being asked to do so to correct someone in a discussion you chose to
jump into the middle of, that initially you had nothing to do with.
That you chose to take offense to. And since then have not changed
your behavior.



> Again, how Am I to now a limit if I'm not told that
>one exists?

now this is yet another untruth. many people in this group, many of
them christians have told you what the limits of this group were and
have repeated told you to not to keep arguing this same war here every
single time you come back and start posting. the first time can
written off as a mistake. since then, making this claim is a lie. no
way around that.


and you got the same reaction from them this time as you did every
time in the past.

>
>> even when you did not clearly know what those beliefs were.
>
>I know my beliefs, you don't.

yes I do, you stated them numerous times.

>
>> so how are you any different?
>
>I don't deliberately cross a person's defined limits, but they must be
>defined to me if I am to know those limits.

this group has done that multiple times since this all began and every
time you have ignored the entire group, you know my personal limits
you know chucks and yet every time you come back you always start in
on the same old routine. The first time, yes, can be excused, every
time since then? no, you knew the limits after that first time.

>> >> >>so long as you look down your nose at me and rationalize it with your
>> >> >>interpretation of religion I am not going to change my view of you.
>> >> >
>> >> >I don't look down on you,
>> >>
>> >> now you're lying.
>> >
>> >I don't, but the Bible says you are wrong.
>>
>> the bible says nothing about you lying in this instance.
>
>You're right, it doesn't address my lying because I am not lying, the Bible
>says you are wrong, not me.

denying a lie does not make it a truth.


>>
>> >>
>> >> >But I will not stop telling what the Bible
>> >> >says on things.
>> >>
>> >> hiding behind a book you don't even understand correctly is irrational
>> >> and cowardly.
>> >
>> >I understand it better than you, but then, I don't make all my judgements
>on
>> >it based on teachings from those with an agenda to destroy Christianity.
>>
>> Christians taught me what the bible says. so according to you
>> christians are self destructive.
>
>Nope, wrong, you missed it by a mile, Mack. Now, if I knew what denomination
>those teachers of the faith were, I would better understand your knowledge
>and your limits.

multiple denominations. I would never limit my understanding to one
sect of such a diverse religion.

>>
>> >
>> >> using that thinking no american should complain about
>> >> any act of religious terrorism committed against anyone by any
>> >> religious group regardless of the religion.
>> >
>> >?????? That makes no sense at all . . .must be liberalese double-speak.
>>
>> it makes perfect sense, to someone who understands that the path to
>> God cannot be dictated by the writings of any man or group of men.
>
>Aha . . . if I don't follow the map I'll get there anyway, right? I could
>agfree with that except . . .the Bible was inspired by God. Ya want some
>links to that claim?

all religions make that same claim about their religious texts, none
of them including the christian religion have been able to prove them.

>>
>> >>
>> >> > I'm just the messenger, take up your argument with the
>> >> >Author.
>> >>
>> >> more than 1 author, all of them dead humans.
>> >
>> >One author, God. Do you accept the concept of the Greek Muses?
>>
>> thanks for the laugh. but no, God is not the author of the bible.
>
>And your non-secular evidence is?
>
>> various men are.
>
>Yep, inspired by God.

Jim Jones was inspired by God. Many others have made the same claim,
such as the muslims who wrote their text and the ones who strap bombs
to their backs, and the christians who ran the inquisition or ones on
TV openly lying and promoting hate between christians and non
christians, or the christians who bomb clinics and snipe doctors and
nurses. "Inspired by God" is used by far to many evil people to
justify far to many evil things to have any real credit today. You're
going to have to do better than that. Or Joe Schmoe could walk off
the street, put a bullet between your eyes, claim he was inspired by
God and have the right walk to free. Who could prove he lied?


>
>> men who have written and rewritten the passages to
>> suit their own desires for power and wealth and have used the bible to
>> do as you are doing, some to a far greater extent some lesser, but all
>> doing basically the same thing.
>
>Now you sound like the Mormons . . .

christians hating christians quite common.

>
>> a desire to control what they do not
>> understand and what they fear as a result of that lack of
>> understanding and or a desire to attain power and wealth from those
>> they did not earn it from.
>
>Now you sound like the ruling class Catholics in Rome.

christians hating christians quite common.


>> no dear, I do not think all fundamentalists should be locked up.
>
>Just me?

did you commit a crime against another person? steal something, hit
someone? trespass, damage their property, shoot them, their animal?
something like that?

>
>> I
>> think they be should held to the same rules as everyone else.
>
>They are.

no, they are not. they are not denied the right marry, the right to
inherit, the right adopt their spouses children, the right to actually
adopt children if they choose not to have biological children of their
own, they are not discriminated against in employment or housing or
taxation because they are what they are.

>
>> equal
>> across the board, no exceptions.
>
>I follow those rules ,but I am an evangelical Christian . . .a lay preacher,
>if that is more understandable.

yes, an amateur who claims to know more than others. very common.

>
>> no rights for them that others in
>> society are denied by them. it's really quite simple.
>
>What rights are being denied? The right to worship as you chose? Go for it.
>The right to state your beliefs? Go for it. The right to be offended? Go for
>it. The right to offend? Go for it. The Bill of Rights? Go for it.

are the same sex marriages performed in the Unitarian and Unity and
MCC churches recognized by law? no they are not. so not only are the
marriages not legalized but the right to worship as one chooses is
also not recognized by law, because the sanctioned marriages within
those sects are not legalized.

>
>The right to not be disliked because you shove some belief in my face that
>you have made into a sacred cow? Guess again, as that would deny my right to
>dislike that sacred cow of yours or to be offended by it. IOW, no special
>rights for anyone for any reason.

that is a childish attempt at twisting facts and distracting the
issues. you'll have to do better than that.

>>
>> >
>> >Certainly not a Christian ( Christlike) attitude on your part.
>>
>> when did "I" say "I" was a christian?
>
>I didn't say you did, but you often act like you know more about how a
>Christian should (act, be like, grovel, cower) than any Christian I know. If
>you are not a Christian, what right do you have telling me how a Christian
>should behave? (HINT: NONE!!!!!) If you are, you have a very non-Christian
>(according to Scripture) way of correcting me.

I am simply repeating what evangelicals have told me. so what you are
saying is that what the evangelicals are telling me is either false or
only applies to every one but the evangelicals themselves.

>>
>> >
>> >> you and I are a lot more a like than your
>> >> fear and prejudice allow you to see.
>> >
>> >Have you looked at those links I gave you? Have you forgotten I was a
>> >Evolutioniost until I was in my late teens? If I'm like you then I should
>be
>> >your future, when you come to know the truth.
>>
>> no, you are my past and each day I work very hard to leave that part
>> of myself that is filled with fear and hate of everything not a carbon
>> of myself. that is just like you, farther behind me.
>
>Again you skipped a direct question, did you look at those links I gave you?

the links to the christian apologetics? yes budd I read those and
others like them a long time ago. the false christian conclusions
about science and the bible and history stuff where the dates on the
creation theory and the actual history of the world don't add up? yes
Budd I read them too.

>
>What your future becomes is your own fault and no one elses. To fail to
>address and accept ourselves as fallible Human Beings is to deny a large
>part of ourselves. To fail to embrace and control our weaknesses is to allow
>them to run unchecked and become evil. I don't leave half of me behind as I
>am incomplete without it.

where did you get that I said I do anything differently? the
difference Budd is that I don't sit around making excuse for my bad
choices and behavior. I don't blame the bible or any religious text
for hating anyone like you do. I don't hide behind religion as an
excuse to persecute anyone.
>> The lesson in the bible on judging others is far from
>> complete.
>
>Really? Are you another one that wants to write their own version so as to
>be allowed to do as you will, not as God wills?

no, that's something you've done quite well all by yourself.


>
>> everyone will judge, not everyone will act on their
>> judgements, or act on them in the same way.
>
>No argument there. But you don't like it when I act on them my way at all.
>What's that called again?
>
>Oh, yes, bigotry.
>
>> Some will judge a man's
>> life as acceptable to them and make a friendship, some will judge it
>> unacceptable and simply walk away. Neither of these 2 groups have
>> done anything wrong. Those who judge a man's life as unacceptable and
>> then seek to persecute him, directly and indirectly, through violence
>> or through inacting unjust discriminatory laws, they are the ones who
>> have done wrong.
>
>Ah, so a society's laws must be modified to favor the minority, not the
>majority? Estimates on the percentage of avowed Christians in the US range
>from 70-85% . . .gee, that's a majority. 49% of the US believes there is
>persecution against Christians in the US. (sources Fox News Polls) Gee.
>Another majority.
>

It used to be illegal for blacks and whites to marry in the USA.
Thanks to the minorities standing up for their rights this was over
turned. If people continued to think and act as you do, it would
still be illegal for blacks and whites to marry and for blacks and
women to vote. and for women to own property and do anything without
their husband's permission.
>
>No, I didn't say I did it everytime, but when someone spouts an erroneous
>statement as fact, as a Christian, I am required to offer correction. YOU
>call that proselytizing.

It is proselytizing for the very fact that you are "not" required to
correct anyone. since you and you alone are not the arbiter of what
is and is not correct on the topic. since the various sects within
the christian religion cannot even agree on it 100% and their are
various versions of the bible each worded differently opening it up to
a different interpretation, the whole idea of any 1 person being
responsible to correct anyone else on the issue is totally ludicrous.
and extremely self centered and egotistical of the one who appoints
himself to that task without the consent of the group.

>
>If you had knowledge of a subject and someone gave bad information on it
>would you not correct them? I have done only that and odffered links to back
>up the correction . . links I have no evidence you ever looked into.

on diabetes, which this forum is actually about it is appropriate to
do so. on religion? no one can prove anything on religion beyond any
doubt. you can quote various versions of the various texts. but you
cannot prove one (1) exact definition of a passage as the only
definition for everyone, or one religion as the only right religion
and all others as the wrong one. that simply can never be done. if
it actually could be done, it would have already been done. and their
would only be one religion in existence on this planet right now.


>>
>>
>> >
>> >> you however have this desire have your beliefs declared
>> >
>> >Yep, it's how I believe I am to be. I want to be the first convicted,
>strung
>> >up, drawn and quartered then decapitated for my Christian beliefs when
>the
>> >Anti-Christ comes, if he comes before I die.
>> >
>>
>> well I know you won't be allowed to be alone with any child in my
>> family.
>
>Fine, you couldn't afford me anyway. <BG> But let me ask you this: what
>right do you have to deny your child access to all religions uncorrupted by
>your beliefs?
>
>A few years back, here in Moab UT, a environmental group was picketing about
>oil explorations in the Bookcliffs area north of us. I not only found it
>hypocritical that they were walking around in cool weather in polyester
>clothing and coats talking on plastic cased cellphones, but to stuff a sign
>in the hands of 4 year olds to force their attitudes upon the kids was, in
>my opinion, abusive.
>
>What right do those adults have to force their beliefs on those kids?
>
>What right does any group have to demand I accept them? Where's my freedom
>of choice on the matter?


where is the child's freedom of choice when allowing someone with a
suicide martyrdom wish access to them? how is your suicide wish any
different than what the muslim suicide wish being taught to children
is? get them young, get them when they don;t know any better, when
they are easily brainwashed and swayed. Even the KKK and the skin
heads and the American White Supremacists and American Nazi groups
know that trick. Explain to me the difference between the groups
tactics?


>>
>> >> the only right beliefs for everyone.
>> >
>> >That's what the Bible says . . I don't care if you accept it or not. It's
>> >called "freewill"and between you and God.
>>
>> if it really is between me and God, why are you saying anything about
>> other than it is between me and God?
>
>Why are you upset over me doing what I believe?

in this instance, you not, you are now flip flopping.
>
>Answer the question, are you a licensed psychologist? How do you know I
>haven't changed a point of view? Got a poll to back it up (run by an
>independent unbiased company)? OTOH, I've seen more Christians announcing
>their beliefs in this group. . . no, not as I believe, but it's there.

their is not one person in here who admitted to their religion who was
anything but that, before or after you came to this group. No one
converted to christianity because of this thread or anything you
posted in any other thread. If anyone did they would have said so.
the fact you claim otherwise, shows a level of self delusion that is
very disturbing.


>>
>> >
>> >> another, just like all humans, is that there is nothing
>> >> consistent about your beliefs because they change with your moods and
>> >> resentments, except maybe your "perceived" enemies of God.
>> >
>> ><LOL> My "inconsistencies are merely your inaccurate perceptions based on
>my
>> >postings and are entirely between your ears . . .
>>
>> then why do you intentionally misinterpret scripture to support your
>> resents and anger and hate?
>
>Why do you force your interpretation of the Bible on me? Why are you fixated
>on a fundamental Christian being full of hate and anger?


because in this case, with you specifically it happens to be true.
and that saddens me.

>>
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Keep hiding behind your interpretation of a book written by men.
>> >
>> >HUH??? The Bibler was written by men inspired by God.

and least you are admitting it was actually written by men now.
that's growth at least.

>>
>> explain that to all the millions killed because of the interpretations
>> of that bible like your own.
>
>Explain all the greater millions, if not billions, in all of history killed
>by non-Christians, like Shintos, Bhuddists, Hindus, Atheists, and so on. To
>note only those killed by followers of one faith is bigotry at it's purest.

because whenever I have talked with members of those religions, of
which atheism is not a religion, none of them deny their histories
like christians do. And for the record, atheists do not kill people
simply because they choose not to be atheists.

>
>Explain all the charity groups founded by Chritians since Christ walked the
>Earth and how many more of them there are than secular charity groups.

if you took your blinders off, you would find that statement was very
false. of course your statement is clouded by your limited personal
experiences.

>
>Blind as you are, the US is predomninately Christian and always has been.

that does not make the USA a christian only nation. you seem to be
forgetting freedom of religion is a guaranteed right here. but
evangelicals with your interpretations always appear to over look that
when it comes to non-christians.

>>
>> >
>> >> Fear, hate, prejudice are not
>> >> expressions of faith, love and trust in God.
>> >
>> >What fear? My future is guaranteed with a retirement plan literally out
>of
>> >this world.
>>
>> all people of all religions believe the same thing, not one has ever
>> proven they had it right and anyone else was wrong.
>
>No, none of the others offer the same as God does, where the most common
>substance is used to pave the streets, gold.

interesting, why are you obsessed with Gold in the after life? you
really think God cares about it?

>>
>> > What hate? Do you percieve a passionate debate as hatred? What
>> >prejudice? I have made my choices of lifestyle, faith, beliefs
>>
>> yes, lifestyle (country boy, city etc), faith, beliefs, these are
>> actually choices.
>
>Yep, and they are mine.You have no right to force change.

no one has tried to change you.

>>
>> > and sexual orientation.
>>
>> now this is a cute one. exactly when did you chose to be a
>> heterosexual and give up your desires to be a homosexual. because
>> that is what your statement implies. if you chose to be heterosexual,
>> at some point you had the desire to also be homosexual.
>
> None of your business.
>>
>> please explain this process to me. I am dead serious on this one.
>
>It's found in the New Testament.


so the whole thing was another lie on your part. you never made a
conscious choice to be heterosexual over homosexual. and you cannot
explain the process because you did not go through any such process.
and this "it's in the new testament" line is just a smoke screen
because their is nothing in their about what I just specifically asked
you to relate to me about your real life experiences.

a man who religion and so faith is based on nothing but lies is not a
man of God and faith. he has nothing but lies and emptiness.


>>
>>
>> > I do not have the right to force anyone to be the same as me
>>
>> but you do wish to deny others the same equal rights as you.
>
>What rights do you claim I'm denying anyone? I do believe that the Bible is
>the ultimate authority, higher than man, higher than Government.
>>
>> >and you do not have the right to force me to accept what you believe.
>>
>> I never asked you to accept what I believe, not once.
>
>No, you continue to accuse me of denying rights of some kind. In a way, you
>are pressuring me to conform to your belief on the matter . . now what is
>that if not forcing youre beliefs on me?

no one has ever forced their beliefs on you.

>
>> nor would I
>> ever do so.
>
>Too late. Ya already have.

never happened.

>
>> what you choose to believe is your own business.
>
>Is it? Then why do you keep up the pressure about me supposedly denying
>someone some right?
>

rights and beliefs are not the same things.


>> that
>> however has nothing to do with protecting the rights of all people in
>> this country and once and for all making this country live up to it's
>> failed claims of freedom and justice and equality for all.
>
>If you are seeking some special right not covered by the Constitution of the
>US or the Scriptures, then you are in error, inho.

the scriptures give no one any rights.

>
>> Our
>> constitution says "All" men, not just christian white male
>> heterosexuals.
>
>And what where the ethnic characteristics of that group that wrote and
>signed the document? I do get a glimmer now of why you will not accept the
>Bible as written.

this statement and the others in this post are very revealing as to
what you are really like Budd.

Thank you for finally showing us a true picture of what you look like
on the inside.

--
Mâck©®
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org



"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
....Theodore Roosevelt

(o o)
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."



Jesus never hated anyone.


http://tinyurl.com/dgb3q
http://tinyurl.com/aw4mh
.

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