Re: Wine Consumption and Diabetes

On 6 Dec 2005 08:02:57 -0800, "Larry" <boelkowj@xxxxxxx>
wrote:

>Hello my good NGers.. Just wanted to share my thoughts on a recent
>experiment. For those scientifically inclined this is a study N=1
>(myself) and some general ideas I have as a result. Please be kind to
>me. As a T2 person who enjoys dry red wine..2-3 glasses many nights I
>have asked several people..ie my doctor, my pharmcist, nurse, endo etc
>about wine as a contraindication in diabetes taking and not taking
>metformin and reasons why or why not. I read in the package insert
>about "excessive alcohol" intake or "binge drinking" (not me).. Replies
>I have gotten are typically 1) "One glass (maybe 2?) dry red wine daily
>is probably OK and maybe good for you so far as CV beneficial effects
>but beer and some drinks are too high in coloric content" 2) "metformin
>and alcohol don't work too well together" 3) " Caution in Package
>Insert mainly addresses potential liver toxicity since both alcohol and
>metformin are metabolzed in the liver.4) "too much alcohol can cause
>lactate acidosis." As you can see most of these explanations are more
>or less tolerant of some wine consumption. My thought was until I could
>find a definitive reason to stop ..why stop.? After a bit more Google
>searching and a 2 week trial with no wine here are my observations
>which you may find helpful to you. 1) alcohol potentiate lactate levels
>in certain tissues of the body (subclinical lactic acidosis?) even at
>low doses. 2) hepatobiliary disease ie. death has a higher
>standardized mortality ratio due to cirrhosis than cardiovascular
>disease in T2s. (Keith Tolman, MD). My observation: FBG levels are now
>consistently 120 plus or minus 5 rather tha 145 plus or minus 10. No
>change in PP numbers that I can note. Sleep better with fewer
>awakenings. I have no idea if these improvements are just a transient
>positive effect on my metabolism but time will only determine that. I
>only hope some kind of compensitory mechanisms in the body won't reset
>my FBG level back to where there have been for the past few years. I
>suggest that researchers should look more closely at the interaction
>between metformin and alcohol consumption particulary to explain the
>bimodal action of alcohol ie lowering FBG levels on the short term and
>higher FBG levels on the long term. Aside from alcohol's well known
>effect on changes of some drug metabolism through liver enzyme
>induction (Cytochrome P450), one should study further possible toxicity
>of metformin-alcohol on metabolic pathways involving lactate levels
>(Kreb Cycle?). Again I am not refering to full blown lactate acidosis
>but just subclinical symptoms effecting sleep, heart rate,
>palputations. breathing rate, restlessness during sleep, restless leg
>syndrome, body quivering" etc. It may be that elevated lactate levels
>(lactate/pyuvate ratio?) is a culprit for some of these side effects.
>So for now I am staying off wine to see what happens down the road..
>Maybe some day a couple glasses a week would seem reasonable and safe
>as I do enjoy fine wine. Cheers..
>
>Larry

Hi Larry

I am an unashamed promoter of red wine for medicinal
purposes, and practise what I preach. I drink about
300-400ml daily of dry red wine, in the form of a glass at
lunch and two at dinner.

In experiments on BGs, I found a minimal reducing effect -
certainly not an increase in my n=1 experiments.

When I say "promoter" I don't imply it's suitable for all.
Decisions on wine or other forms of alcohol should be taken
in context of your medical situation, addiction history,
doctor's advice - and whether you like it. However, for
those who can drink it - I think it's great.

I'm closing down the computer today, so I don't have time to
write a full response. However, the subject has been
discussed here regularly and I started a few threads myself.
Below are a couple of links, and I've repeated my post from
one about a year ago:

Little Ole Wine Drinker Me
http://tinyurl.com/dtycu

Red Wine
http://tinyurl.com/9l2j2
"Alan Nov 4 2004, 9:57 pm

On a different thread there was a minor dispute on the
relative benefits of alcohol (all forms), white wine and red
wine.

>From my research two things become very clear, provided that
there are no other factors determining suitability of
alcohol: alcohol in moderation is beneficial to your health,
particularly diabetic health; and of the various forms of
alcohol red wine has additional benefits for heart health,
diabetes and some forms of cancer.

That is also an opinion based on personal experience. I
drink about a half-bottle (350-400 ml) of red wine daily.

In the various articles and research papers I have read the
definition of moderation is a little variable; however the
general consensus is that two 5 (us) ounce glasses daily for
a male, and half that for a female, is moderate and
sufficient to be beneficial.

I was going to post a whole lot of research cites, but
decided instead to just post a few from the first page of a
high-wire search on "red wine diabetes". Some may argue that
some of the studies are not conclusive because there were
small sample sizes or other factors. However, the sheer
number of positive studies is overhelming. I sampled
many of the 476 discovered by that search without finding a
negative report.

I would suggest trying similar searches on "red wine
cardiovascular" or "cancer" or inserting "resveratrols" in
lieu of "red wine" for those that are interested.

Highwire is at http://highwire.stanford.edu/
and registration does not lead to spam.

http://highwire.stanford.edu/cgi/medline/pmid;11298779?maxtoshow=&HIT...

Red wine protects diabetic patients from meal-induced
oxidative stress and thrombosis activation: a pleasant
approach to the prevention of cardiovascular disease in
diabetes.

CONCLUSION: This finding confirms that in the absorptive
phase free radicals are produced in diabetic patients, which
reduce serum antioxidant defences, increase LDL oxidation
and activate the coagulation system. Red wine consumption
during a meal significantly preserves plasma antioxidant
defences and reduces both LDL oxidation and thrombotic
activation. The consumption of a moderate amount of red wine
during meals may have a beneficial effect in the prevention
of cardiovascular disease in diabetic patients.
............
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/75/5/856?maxtoshow=&HITS=&hi...

Effects of wine intake on postprandial plasma amino acid and
protein kinetics in type 1 diabetes1,2,3

Conclusions: In insulin-infused patients with type 1
diabetes, moderate wine intake with a meal resulted in 1) a
higher fibrinogen FSR, glucagon concentration, and
first-pass splanchnic uptake of leucine and phenylalanine;
2) lower dietary phenylalanine oxidation; 3) selective
changes in plasma amino acid concentrations; 4) and no
impairment in endogenous proteolysis and albumin synthesis.
...........
http://highwire.stanford.edu/cgi/medline/pmid;14606979?maxtoshow=&HIT...

This review focuses on the link between diabetes mellitus
and oxidative stress and, in particular, on the role that
moderate wine consumption may play in preventing diabetic
complications and the onset of diabetes. With this aim, a
search of PubMed was carried out for literature published up
to March 2003.
......
In conclusion, moderate and regular wine consumption could
ameliorate the diabetic oxidative status. This lifestyle
measure might contribute to preventing diabetic
complications and the onset of diabetes.
............
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/15/4/546?maxtos...

Short-term effect of red wine (consumed during meals) on
insulin requirement and glucose tolerance in diabetic
patients
.........
CONCLUSIONS--Moderate prandial wine consumption has no
adverse effect on the glycemic control of diabetic patients.
Thus, it appears unnecessary to proscribe the consumption of
red wine in moderation with meals to diabetic patients. Wine
contains tannins and phytates that can explain its action.
........
http://highwire.stanford.edu/cgi/medline/pmid;10484061?maxtoshow=&HIT...

Effects of red wine, tannic acid, or ethanol on glucose
tolerance in non-insulin-dependent diabetic patients and on
starch digestibility in vitro.
..........
Drinking red wine with a meal did not increase blood glucose
in NIDDM patients, and led to a slight decrease in some
instances. The effect appeared to be mediated by the
nonalcoholic compounds in wine such as tannic acid. Ethanol
itself had no effect on plasma glucose or insulin levels.
............
http://highwire.stanford.edu/cgi/medline/pmid;15334193?maxtoshow=&HIT...

Wine, alcohol and atherosclerosis: clinical evidences and
mechanisms.
.........
These findings lead to the concept that moderate red wine
drinking, in the absence of contraindications, may be
beneficial to patients who are at risk of atherosclerotic
cardiovascular events. Moreover, a diet based on fruits and
vegetables containing flavonoids may be even more
beneficial. "

Cheers Alan, T2, Australia.
--
I have no medical qualifications beyond my own experience.
Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be
an expensive teacher.

Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
.

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