Re: Dr. McDougall's Recommendations:



"Quentin Grady" <quentin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:8aabk1pdjhifuo2sig8csj389boh7q91tu@xxxxxxxxxx

> G'day G'day Tom,
>
> The question Loretta asked is "Who is Dr McDougall?"

i wasnt replying to her question to you but your comment of

"The ADA diet allows up to 30% fat by
>>> calories."

and that simply isnt true. as you have seen they can see the need for some
to have upto about 40% of their callories from fat.
and that is above "up to 30%."


>
> Dr McDougall happens to believe the ADA is making a general
> recommendation of 30% calories fat.

well he is right about that - a general recommendation of 30% but anyone
that read a few pages
on their web site would realize they dont want anyone to go to that web site
or any book to deveolop a diet.
or esle their simply wouldnt be a need to recommend dietitians as often as
they do.


>
>>Fat ought to make up about 30% of your calories.
>
> Your cut and paste give above confirms that Dr McDougall is reasonable
> holding this belief.

i wasnt questioning him but did point out that you saying "up to 30%" simply
isnt true.
30% is a general recommendation and not the maximum .


>
> Since Dr McDougal espouses an ultra low fat diet, 7 to 10% of calories
> from fat, perhaps we shouldn't upset him by mentioning exceptions that
> exceed the general ADA rule you quote. "Fat ought to make up about 30%
> of your calories."

I cant really picture a Dr. reading this group. so i dont think he will be
to upset.


>
> The paragraph you omitted
>
> "Conversely, a small woman with type 2 diabetes who needs to lose some
> weight, may need to keep the amount of fat she eats at about 25% of
> calories or below to achieve her nutrition and diabetes goals."
>
> Clearly 25% fat is still way, way higher than Dr McDougall's idea of
> low fat.



i left it out because it had nothing to do with you saying " that the ADA
allows up to 30% "
i simply gave an example when they might recommend 40% of calories from fat.
and clearly 30% fat is lower than 40% fat.
however I am glad you metioned that. i hear just about every low carber
here
say the ADA thinks one size fits all and in this 1 thread i see a range of
recommendations
from 25% to 40% from the ADA - does atkins or bernstien or any other low car
book seller have such a wide range
of general recommendations? so if anyone thinks a 1 size fits all its not
the leading organizations around the world
more like just those selling low carb books.

>>that might be close to what my dietitian told my wife to eat.
>
> Might be? Either it is or it isn't.


very true


>
>>she was told to eat close to 1/2 of what I was told to eat.
>
>
>>> With regard to protein he surprisingly finds the 13 to 15% protein
>>> typical in the US and the ADA diet as too high.
>>> He suggests it leads to kidney failure in old age.
>>> As you may guess others disagree pointing out that some amino acids
>>> eg arginine found in larger proportions in vegetable proteins repair
>>> kidney damage.
>>
>>
>>that would be very hard to prove.
>
> It is an ongoing controversy.

yes but if you look at who is saying what. even the doctors that review
studies
not sponsered by beef, egg and cheese companies and clearly speak out in
favor of the low carb results in short term studies
always add the bit about " not enough informaton on the effects of long term
saftey for diets higher in fat"
its very hard to prove anything with any study and im sure you will agree
that at this point
more scientists around the world are in favor on low fat diets for long term
use than those
are in favor of high fat diets.
in the real world - the scientific world of nutrtion you can say its the
exact opposite of what goes on here.
in here there are more those in favor higher fat diets and saying it is
healthier than low fat diets
but in the scientific world after reviewing millions of dollors and hours of
research they are in favor
of diets low in fat. who is right ? i did the best I can over the past 3
years to teach myself how to live with it
but still cant help but think scientists know more. a doctor can tell some
to take a medication and spend
an hour explaining it and how it works - some will feel they now know it all
others will know there is still much more to learn.
i doubt very much after that hour of only talking about the medication that
I or anyone reading this will be able to make
something equally as good..


What is surprising is that despite the
> large number of people who have asserted high protein causes kidney
> failure convincing proof that high protein damages healthy kidneys has
> been a long time coming.

there is lots of convincing evidence but your right there is no proof but
the same can be said
for those trying to prove diets higher in protien and fat are healthier in
the long run.
but there are plenty that have been convinced after reading reviewing
millions of dollars in research
and the many years of clynical data.
its not only the ADA but just about every organization for every organ in
your body
that thinks of the low fat diet as a better choice. and most will push you
to see a dietitian
not buy 1 of their books.

>
> IMHO that is likely to be sensible. I can't comment on you specific
> circumstance but it is important for T2s on metformin to realise
> metformin blocks Vit B12 absorption. Vit B12 can be obtained from
> dairy and egg products but Dr McDougall is against dairy products.

i am not on any medications. I hardly eat eggs but do like to have my lean
read meat.
except on sundays then its porterhouse city.




>>well i see no need to follow his advice and I am not defending him at all.
>
> IMHO that is wise. If we click on the article expressing his ideas on
> T2 diabetes ...
> http://www.drmcdougall.com/science/diabetes.html
> we find some disturbing comments.
>
> Firstly there is the suggestion that adult onset diabetics should
> NEVER take oral hypoglycemic agents.
>
> Secondly there are NO blood glucose guidelines for adult onset
> diabetics who are not taking insulin. The only guideline appears to
> be for those taking insulin ie 150 mg/dl to 300 mg/dl.
>
> Notice that the timing of these levels is not mentioned.
>
>>but a lot of what he said is what my wife did to lower her cholestoral.
>>but the best advice my wife got in nutrition was to see a dietitian.
>
> Is she a T1 or T2 diabetic or a non-diabetic?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> --
> Quentin Grady ^ ^ /

non diabetic and now that I have it - it is less likely she will have to
deal with it.


--
Tom
Exercise Today = Life Tomorrow

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