Re: My longest winded post to date - SUBJECT: OBESITY VS DM
- From: rleone@xxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: 30 Sep 2005 08:41:35 -0700
In retrospect, I owe you an apology -- and not a mild one either. I
didn't read your post carefully enough to understand what set off your
"Longest winded post to date" -- and that is definitely NOT a problem
with your writing style! I had a bad case of "woke up on the wrong side
of the bed this morning" syndrome. I understand your points more
Unfortunately, for those affected by them, there are several
barriers in the way of effective weight loss and maintenance. One of
them is "lose weight quick" syndrome, which feeds all those
hoodia/hgh/nostrum-of-the-month spam. Another is really bad diet advice
from, oh, "diet doctors," the cash register jockey at the "health food
store" and "my cousin's hairdresser's aunt's sister's girlfriend."
If I can have some fun with diet doctors, let's just say I find it
significant that, of famous diets known by name, with the exception of
the Bernstein diet (a special case because it's not a general
population maintenance or weight loss diet, but a diet specifically
designed for people with diabetes type 1 and type 2), none seem to come
from Endocrinologists, the medical specialty with "Metabolism" right in
the description. They all seem to come from cardiologists and lately
dermatologists. In the professional category, let's not forget Dr Phil
and his weight loss book -- should one really look for weight loss and
diet advice from a man who has his suits cut THAT fully?
A friend who's been through enough food related grief to be able to
write a book is very bitter about the "diet industry," which she
characterizes as having a 95% failure rate.
Knowing what to do may be easy, especially after a trip to a
registered dietician to get an idea of portion size, but it takes time,
and work. In a world where the headline "Easy Diet Helps You Shed
Pounds" sells magazines and newspapers, it's just too easy to come
across bad impressions about how diet and exercise work, even if the
advice IN the article might be accurate and helpful.
Then there are family/societal pressures -- ranging from "Honey, you
haven't cleared your plate" to "And what makes you think you'll look
slim this time?" to "Whatever it is you're doing, it's not working."
Then there's exercise. Routine exercise seems to threaten, or at
least baffle some people, and not just the ones who are trying to
routinize the exercise. Storytime here: Visiting parents, nearest
coffeehouse is one hour away by foot (one way), and they have a 85 lb
Golden who could use a little exercise himself. Problem of what to do
after breakfast is solved. Next visit, the parents (who are off
caffeine) have dusted off the ol' coffeemaker and gotten beans ground
just for me. "You shouldn't have gone to the trouble" is all I could
Still, and despite that, I do you you, David, a big apology for a
HUGE misunderstanding of your motives and the antecedents to your post
-- please treat yourself to the internet equivalent of a shredded
cabbage and red bell pepper salad with an UNSEASONED rice vinegar (the
"seasoned" stuff is sweetened with sugar) and walnut oil dressing,
topped with some fresh pomegranate and/or chopped peanuts with a
beverage of your choice, on me.
Robert Leone, rleone@xxxxxxxxxxx
> According to a couple of posters here, diabetes causes obesity. If
> that's the case, it should be impossible to lose weight, once you are
> deemed a diabetic.
> I, on the other hand, having a firm grip on reality, know that if you
> are obese, you have a mucho higher chance than the general population to
> develop diabetes (she argues the point). Further more, as countless
> zillions of bits of information have been printed on the matter, if a T2
> strives to lose weight, watch what they eat, and exercise, they MAY
> manage to get off of all meds and live a healthy life (by maintaining a
> HEALTHY LIFESTYLE) with a low A1c. If they fall off the wagon, they
> most likely will be back on meds and/or their A1c will elevate. That's
> just the way it is, folks. I'm astounded that anyone would argue that
> diabetes CAUSES obesity. Take one T2 person who is obese, and have them
> follow a healthy lifestyle as mentioned above: if they are no longer
> running high bg's or A1c's they are STILL a diabetic, but the DIABETES
> DOES NOT MAKE THEM REMAIN OBESE. REMAINING OBESE IS A MATTER OF CHOICE
> AND KNOWLEDGE. IT IS NOT A FOREGONE CONCLUSION.
> You people who keep arguing this point are so far out in left field that
> I'm really in awe at your faulty perception of cause and effect. My
> conclusion is that you have personal issues that can't deal with the
> facts that obese people put themselves at risk of DM. If a person
> ALWAYS MAINTAINED A HEALTHY LIFESTYLE FROM INFANCY, and they developed
> DM, that's a WHOLE 'NUTHER BALLGAME. I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT IF YOU
> AREN'T OBESE YOU CAN'T BECOME DIABETIC. WHAT I SAYING IS THAT STUDIES
> SHOW THAT IF YOU ARE OBESE YOUR CHANCES RISE DRAMATICALLY.
> I could myself become obese IF I WAS AN IDIOT (as some of YOU are
> wrongly convinced) and stopped being active, and ate all the goodies I
> wanted and increased my portions. I like snacks like the next person,
> and it's an every day struggle to stop thinking about snacking. I
> guarantee that I could hit 300 lbs if I wanted to let myself go.
> Several unnamed posters have accused me of BLAMING people for their
> obesity related diabetes. I tried earlier to refute that claim, and
> instead re-iterate that I was trying to recount the FACT that IF a
> person gains weight, then any propensity to develop DM will be
> intensified. I never said that all obese people will be diabetic. I
> said that their CHANCES increase.
> Another issue here on this forum is that many readers don't really READ
> posts thoroughly enough to digest the intent of the writer. They bring
> their preconceived notions to the reading (or should I say SKIMMING) of
> the post.
> In conclusion, I expect none of those in opposition to my statements to
> change their minds in the slightest. I'm not naive enough to expect to
> make a dent in the confusion rampant in this news group.
> So...the only suggestion I will make is that if you are overweight, TRY
> to do something about it. If you've already tried 10,000 times and
> failed, try a few more times, or lay down and give up. The choice is
> yours. Your doctors have told you time and time again to lose weight
> (if they are worth their salt) because they know how important it is.
> Or you can use your energies to bitch to me about what a horrible and
> stupid person I am (oh, yeah, and "arrogant" too, according to Evelyn or
> one of those who have been arguing with me) for daring to suggest that
> losing excess weight is a good and practical goal for DM's.
> I'm no different than anyone else, except that I understand the
> consequences of my actions. Many of you would rather whine about your
> predicament than do something constructive about it. The easy route for
> you is to vilify the messenger. Enjoy yourself. YOU DON'T REALLY HURT
> ME BY NOT TAKING CARE OF YOURSELF. And I'm not going to have my day
> ruined by posters like Mack who can't put together a coherent argument
> instead of a person attack, so he no longer exists for me. I also won't
> have my day ruined by anyone who responds with personal attacks. I'll
> consider the source(s) and chuckle at your various infantile behaviors.
> It's funny that someone last night suggested that I be KF'd because of
> my views when others here ROUTINELY attack the person rather than
> discuss the topic with anything remotely approaching logic, common
> sense, and FACT.
> I think I'll go eat now...
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