Re: i think I have taken all I can take and I can't take no more

"Michael B" <baughfam@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:d8a7e6cb-4a81-4b62-a39f-2e6fb91c12ad@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Having been in the medical business, I have watched an
OD patient in respiratory depression be awake, aware,
and chatting after getting a dose of naloxone (Narcan).
And the oral version is Naltrexone, with several names
depending on its delivery and manufacture location.

Putting other issues aside, let's talk about "junkies" for
a moment.
Dr Bahari found that the patients he was seeing in 1985,
who were narcotics addicts that had gotten what was
later called AIDS from shared needles, were running only
a third of the naturally-occurring endorphins that people
such as myself and my mother-in-law take for granted.
(It takes a lot for her to even be bothered by something
that would be quite painful for someone else)

But anyway, back to the addicts. Their endorphin levels
were very low, and they were self-medicating. Like a person
that smokes is bringing up the dopamine, or the kleptomaniac
or gambler is using the excitement to bring up the endorphins.

So anyway. the 50 mg version (Revia) of Naltrexone was a
dismal failure. After all, who would deliberately take something
that would totally block their endorphin receptors for the whole
day? And afterwards, there was a surgically implanted version
that would slowly maintain a therapeutic dose, binding up the
same receptors, prevent any value being gotten from narcotics
or alcohol, basically making the person continue to feel crummy
the whole day. Not a very good direction to take, you think?

However, by taking a TENTH of that dose, just at bedtime, the
body sees the low level and revs up the production, resulting in
300-500% of the otherwise 'normal' amount that was naturally
there for that person.
So the person may well not need the levels of pain meds that
were previously seen as a requirement.
Some interesting reading can be found at this site.
http://pain-topics.org/pdf/OpioidAntagonistsForPain.pdf

And you mention placebo effect.
During Dr Bahari's time of dealing with those "junkies with AIDS",
4 times as many of them survived the AIDS than those not being
treated, and AZT came along later, and is nasty stuff on its own.
That's what made them realise that it was helping the immune
system. Recently, studies on Multiple Sclerosis, Crohn's, and
Fibromyalgia have shown considerable improvement, including
60+% remission in a Crohn's study. And it has helped people
against Lyme disease, and cancer. Placebo effect is not that
strong. Especially when people are not aware of the product
they are getting. You know that.

I'm not saying that anyone should start the protocol, in spite
of the fact that it can be less than a dollar a day and avoid
the nasty effects of steroids or the NEED for narcotics at
higher levels.

Revia is an anti-narcotic. It is not something FDA is going to
remove anytime soon. It was approved over 20 years ago, and
the LDN protocol uses less than a tenth of that dosage per
day, at bedtime.

I'll round out by reminding that if a person doesn't normally
feel comfortable and happy, and if there is an immune system
issue they are dealing with as well, it "can't hurt, might help"
to consider looking into the LDN protocol.

And those six women out of ten who found that it helped them
in the Stanford study, I'm betting that their primary diagnostic
issues involved immune system dysfunction, along with lower
beta-endorphin levels.

And a reminder-I'm not really looking for "a big response" on
this. I don't know or care who researches it, or doesn't. But
I do know that a person I know that was wheelchair-bound
with multiple sclerosis is now out and about, and driving.

One fact shoots hell out of a lot of theory, and that sorta
thing is not likely to be accounted for by placebo effect.

Does that at least partially answer your question?

===========================

Yep, all except for one thing. How many people will willingly go through
withdrawals to try something like this? At this stage of my treatment, I am
"stabilized", at least for the moment, and I'm able to function at work.
Why would I want to take 2 to 3 weeks off work (which would instantly get me
fired) to go through a living hell, to try an unproven medication?

Hugs,


CatNipped
On Oct 10, 1:17 pm, "CatNipped" <CatNip...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"Michael B" <baugh...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:ba610ea5-485d-4689-919e-5f5dd2d11498@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Ya know, people are bound to have gotten tired of hearing
about this from me, but too bad.
I suggest that you research low dose Naltrexone. And start
it, if you decide it's appropriate, before temporary problems
become permanent.
Just my suggestion, not even giving you a URL.
Search terms "low dose naltrexone" and "rsd".
Similar suggestion for anyone being prescribed steroids, too.

===================

So Michael, I'll give you my take on this and why you're not getting a big
response here, and you let me know if I'm wrong...

Naltrexone "blocks" the receptors that opiates target in pain relief (I've
read that they use Naltrexone in OD cases to quickly reduce the effects of
the opiate). So, for people taking opiates to relieve otherwise unbearable
pain, taking a medication that will reduce the efficacy of their opiate
treatment doesn't sound like a very good idea. If I were just starting out
on this torturous journey, I might give LDN a try first before going on to
stronger, more proven methods of pain relief. But, the thought of going
through the withdrawals that those who are dependent/tolerant to opiates
will experience upon immediate stoppage of treatment, AND experiencing the
horrific pain that led them to use opiates in the first place, is not an
inducement to trying an "alternant" therapy (yes, I've heard the stories
of
people who have had miraculous recoveries using LDN - every OTC,
homeopathic, herbal or alternate therapy have just as many proponents - I
would assume, the brain being the magnificent, misunderstood organ that it
is, that quite a few people taking placebos will experience miraculous
cures
as well).

Personally, I just don't think any person, who is not a junkie, and not
really in pain would put themselves through the misery of opiate treatment
and all the problems, side effects, and hassles concomitant with that
treatment (finding a doctor who will prescribe the dose you need to
function, fear of DEA interference and possibly prosecution and a jail
sentence, government regulations, pharmacy techs sneering at you as you
pick
up your meds, life long friends and even your family turning their backs
on
you, finally finding a medicine that will relieve your pain yet still let
you function at work and at home only to have the FDA yank it off the
market - well, I could go on, but you get my drift) if there really were
an
alternate treatment with the same results.

JMHO

Hugs,

CatNipped


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: i think I have taken all I can take and I cant take no more
    ... and chatting after getting a dose of naloxone. ... And you mention placebo effect. ... Naltrexone "blocks" the receptors that opiates target in pain relief (I've ...
    (alt.support.chronic-pain)
  • Re: i think I have taken all I can take and I cant take no more
    ... I suggest that you research low dose Naltrexone. ... Naltrexone "blocks" the receptors that opiates target in pain relief (I've ... treatment doesn't sound like a very good idea. ...
    (alt.support.chronic-pain)
  • Re: RSD Treatment Netherland Guidelines
    ... I think if I had never been started on opiates I ... methods to cure or even mask the pain. ... of unemployment payments and are thereby taken off the unemployment rolls, ... help with me treatment, so thank you Kitty for posting this link (and I ...
    (alt.support.chronic-pain)
  • Re: Latest to go into Wa. Law!
    ... How many of these so called pain specialists ... are certified in the use of opiates in non cancer pain? ... Where is this new evidence that suggests long term pain treatment with ... A cancer patient will die. ...
    (alt.support.chronic-pain)
  • Re: Latest to go into Wa. Law!
    ... How many of these so called pain specialists ... are certified in the use of opiates in non cancer pain? ... Where is this new evidence that suggests long term pain treatment with ... A cancer patient will die. ...
    (alt.support.chronic-pain)