Re: Jesus Christ = Cesare Borgia?

On Sep 21, 3:48 pm, "OldGoat" <oldgoatm...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Dear Sean,

This is just my opinion and view of religion through the ages, but it has
been so polluted by political factions, demonizing of others who don't
believe the exact same thing (a good example is the Sunni-Shiite break in
Islam, I forget the difference, but it was so minor as to be forgettable.
Unless you're Sunni or Shiite) I wouldn't put any stock in any resemblances
or representation of any religious figures. Many believe Jesus was a black
man. He was certain to have a Mid-Eastern type of complexion. Carpenter,
fisherman, Rabbi or Savior, he was out in the hot sun a plenty, that's for
Not a religious observation, but some of the nicest guys I have ever known,
any mother would have taken for Satan incarnate and refused them entry in
to their home. Looks and resemblances are only skin deep and when you go
back as far as the middle ages, you see more of the artists reflection than
that of the subject.
Now if you're putting forth a theory that Christ's visage was and has been
influenced by important people of the time the portrait was painted, I think
that holds a lot of water. What ruler would fail to compliment the likeness
between Christ and themselves? It probably would have earned the artist what
we now call a tip. Any variation from the heavenly deity resemblance could
very well have earned the artist what is now known as 10-15 years, on rat
meat and water, from the all purpose bucket, if you get my drift. Incentive,
so to speak.
It's funny however, if you take your average family unit from the mid to
late 60's, particularly from the "bible belt" and deep south, anyone with a
resemblance to Jesus as we now see him, would have been beaten within an
inch of his life and left town with their head shaved by a dull razor.
Lord forgive us for what we do. Sometimes we are just some real dumbshits
who do judge a book by its cover. I think we are so fallible and stupid,
petty creatures sometimes, just so we can really recognize true good when it
comes along. It's a shame we are never so fast on the uptake when it comes
to real evil. Maybe that's part of it too.
I'm not much of a believer in religion, so I don't know if anyone's offended
by my remarks, if so, I apologize. But where I may have my doubts in God, I
like to think I make up for it in belief in my fellow man, that despite our
affinity towards evil, and the many disappointments along the road, that we
are ultimately good. We plumb the depths of our human nature a good deal of
the time, but we are surrounded by shining examples we should strive to
emulate, those who soar above it all. Some day we'll all take wing and fly.
More than you wanted to hear, sorry. Just my 2 cents--og

Ps- I don't know how much research was done for this work of fiction, but if
you read Hannibal (the Silence of the Lambs guy) I think a similar theory
was put forth about a wealthy middle ages Italian family having their
features artistically personified in to that of Jesus, The Disciples and
other biblical/historical figures. A vague recollection on my part, but
maybe worth a look.--goat

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"Sean C" <redh...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message


In the Wikipedia's article on Cesare Borgia, the ruthless Italian
Renaissance leader who was the model for the ideal ruler in
Machiavelli's "The Prince," and also the model for numerous portraits
of Christ produced during his lifetime, it states that portraits of
Christ using Borgia's visage may have influenced all subsequent
depictions of Christ.

"In Volume One of Celebrated Crimes, Alexandre Dumas, père states that
some pictures of Jesus Christ produced around Borgia's lifetime were
based on Cesare Borgia, and that this in turn has influenced images of
Jesus produced since that time."

If you look at the Wikipedia's arrticle, the portrait of Borgia does
look rather "Christ-like." Does anybody know anything about this? I
know the Borgia family was notorious for painting itself into Biblical
scenes or as the models for religious figures. If it is true about
Cesare Borgia being the model for the archetypal Christ image that
would certainly fulfill the command of "rendering unto

--Sean C

Payne Hertz is a chronic pain advocacy site whose mission is to educate
public about the abuse and maltreatment of people with chronic pain, and
advocate for civilized and humane treatment of chronic pain.

Ok Im taking a small jump out of retirement to join in on a
philospohical point. (something I can rarely resist) I am thouroughly
convinced that if one cannot detect true evil, then they are equally
incapable of detecting good, for the two often come in the guise of
the other.

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