Re: i hate doctors la la la

Dear Liss,

Just a couple things to add, nothing of great importance, but I recall
seeing something on 60 Minutes (almost sure that was where I saw this) about
some new drug for PTSD. The way it worked was claimed to be revolutionary-
it conditioned your mind, not so much to repress the bad experience, but to
sort of disconnect the feelings over the experience. You know it happened.
You know it sucked and was awful. But the trauma was decreased to damn near
nothing. It may be something worthwhile to kick around with your shrink.
Usually the competent docs are the ones that keep up on their reading and
are looking for stuff like this. It was used for a lot of rape and sexual
abuse victims. And the best part, which I may be imagining they said, so
don't take any of this as gospel, is that you didn't have to keep taking it.
A couple months to get it under control and that's it, you quit the med.
Therapy in a capsule.
Watch your Naproxen dose. It's still a nasty NSAID and if I recall right,
1500mgs was the daily max. But your knees just go to show that sometimes
they can be just what the doctor (should have) ordered. They are dangerous
as hell, but still have a valid medical use.
It's sometimes not so easy to have friends who find their recreation
medicinally. It seems like I have no friends who don't in some form or
another, and I am including some potheads in that, but that barely qualifies
to me. It's as medicinal as a martini before dinner was 50 years ago. I
still have a couple that are/were (depending on the methadone clinic and if
you count that as recreation. I tend to think it more as medicinal, treating
the disease of heroin addiction) hard core junkies, but you can't help it
when you love somebody like the closest of friends do.
When I first started taking narcotics for my back, I was really kind of
concerned that it might put me in a difficult position. Ten years down the
line now, and it's never been asked, no matter how sick they may have been
coming off a bad jones. They ask how I am and what's doing, and I have seen
their jaws drop to the floor in amazement, coming back from the pharmacy,
but the question has never been asked. I'm just guessing, but having been
through the hell of narcotic withdrawal more then once, and not being able
to imagine severe pain on top of it, I think it was just out of bounds to
them. After being so close for 35 years or so, there are just more important
things in life than a buzz.
It really does make one wonder about someone you call friend that would add
to your distress just to get high. And on that note, I'll just leave that
thought at your feet to consider...

Keep in touch--og

"painfully aware" <movetoheal@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1175725323.251413.292060@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Apr 4, 4:03 pm, "OldGoat" <oldgoatm...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Dear Liss,

With an exception or two, I couldn't agree with you more. They tend to be
deaf, hard-headed, and all consumed by a terrible case of a god complex. I
can't really speak to your shrink type problems with any great competency,
but being manic at the pain docs, is not the worst thing that could
happen.
The only time they pay attention sometimes is when you get in their face a
bit. Stop thinking about the docs as an authority figure, and begin
treating
them as you would an employee. That is the essential basis of the
relationship. You hire them to do something. You can fire their lame asses
too.>

You, my friend, are simply brilliant. You always know just what to
say! Thank you so much.. I know I have major authority issues as it
is, but with doctors, it's even worse.. It's like I turn into a 5-year
old helpless shriveling twit! Then after the visit, I get mad, and
THEN I can express/communicate better. I just don't get it.. I'm
learning, though. I realize that because I spent a lot of years in
pain but not seeking medical care (or, settling for the label "drug-
seeker" at the ERs I've visited), it's going to take me some time to
learn how to advocate for myself. It's simply absurd, though. I am
paying them to help me! it's not like I'm the employee and they're my
boss, or my father, or anything like that.
Here's the real kicker... I called this morning, left a voice mail..
no call back. I called from my therapist's office, got voice mail..
FINALLY I called MY pcp's office (same building) and said "look, I was
promised a script and no one is getting back to me and I'm getting
nervous because you're not supposed to just stop taking opiates", they
put me right through.. the nurse said the script was there.. I go pick
it up...and he's written it for 120 pills.. and I see him on the 23rd.
(Normally, he'd only have written it for exactly enough until the next
appointment).. so yeah, weirdness, and I do think he was trying to
push me off on the Neuro.. argh! (The Neuro was awesome, actually. He
was really nice and he listened well. told me that if my mercury level
was high, he'd see me again to discuss that being the root cause of
the headaches.) I actually broke out in laughter when I saw the # of
pills on the script.. I think he's either doing them himself, or just
wacked. I got them, anyway. I'm happy. And, I managed to walk
another 2 miles today with tolerable pain.. I think what I'm going to
do is take the Naproxen in the A.M., go swim and walk, and save the
oxys for when I'm hurting the worst, which is always after I
exercise. The problem is, of course, that it takes all 60 mgs to make
my pain level drop to a tolerable level, but I figure if I just keep
it simple and just tell him that, that maybe he'll just up it to the
30 mg pills. That's what I think would be most effective and give me
the best relief. (But, I'm learning that docs DO NOT like to be told
what to prescribe.. they hardly even listen to you when you bring up
research you've done on your own!)

On to the narcotics, something I do know about. It only takes a couple
weeks
to pick up a jones and feel it when you don't have them. Your pain guy is
a
real jerkoff. He's playing with you. As I said to Wayne, if they don't
give
you enough meds to knock out the majority of the pain, all they're doing
is
jacking up your tolerance. Just as useless as too much drug and drooling
at
the TV. The oxycodone is also available as roxicodone (and generic) in
15mg
and 30 mg doses. And as long as it's NOT *OxyContin*, you can chop the
little buggers in half if you find a 30mg to be too much. I think you will
find it just right though.

yeah.. I really don't want to have to go through that. Not when I'm
just finally figuring out the best way to use this medication.
Like I told the doctor, (and my mom, who's expressed concern but it's
because *she* can't take pills carefully. it's her issue, not mine)
I'm only looking for pain relief so it's at a tolerable level for me
to be able to get out and move, exercise, and so forth. I certainly
don't want to have to be taking these forever.. and I know if I lose
some more weight, my knees will feel a lot better. So far, though, the
Naproxen is making a HUGE difference in my knees. I'm very happy with
that. I think it was wise of me to ask them to switch me from 800mg
Ibuprofen to the Naproxen. I honestly think I'm immune to ibuprofen
because of the years I was using (too many of them) for headaches.
Plus, I make sure that the pharmacy I go to carries a generic
manufacturer that isn't Mallenkroft. I swear I noticed a difference,
and this doctor only writes the script as "oxycodone hcl", not
roxicodone.. so he's evidently not comfortable scripting the brand
name, for whatever reason. All he told me was "they're all generics"
when I asked him to write on the script "brand name medically
necessary". I think they might have to have a really good reason for
prescribing the brand name, or else this wouldn't even be an issue
with this guy.

Dropping Topamax is like the best thing you could have done for your
health. Nothing but horror stories about that ***. As with the other docs
and their diagnosi, I really wonder how these guys come up with all this
***. DDD and Fibro seem to be catch alls for any physical pain. Just like
BPD and ADD for psychological issues. In spite of my leanings towards
better
living through chemistry, tossing out a diagnosis of ADD in a kid is
absurd.
They aren't supposed to have a great attention span, they're kids for
Christ's sake. You ever see a kid play video games on a Playstation? How
the
hell do they call that ADD? The goddamn house could be in flames and they
wouldn't notice until the TV melted.

that is so weird.. I had counseling today, and he's a phd and VERY
very good.. He's questioning the "bipolar" diagnosis, too.. and we're
doing diagnostic testing and he's very thorough. I'm glad to have
someone like him, because he agrees with me that Psych doctors tend to
over-diagnose, over-medicate, misdiagnose, or call anyone who's not
textbook and has mood fluctuations "bipolar". it's one of those
diagnoses that is just thrown out to anyone, just like ADD is now with
kids.. Funny, too because he and I were talking about that. He gets
really mad about diagnosing kids who have behavioral issues.. because,
like you said.. kids aren't supposed to have an attention span, and
kids aren't supposed to behave like adults do. We seem to have, in
this country, set these weird guidelines about how someone should
behave, and if you fall outside those perameters, you're immediately
diagnosed with having some sort of mental illness. It's ridiculous.
Not to mention, I wonder how many of these ADD-happy doctors actually
take a look at how the parents are feeding their kids, disciplining,
or encouraging their autonomy as human beings! There's a huge
relation between sugar and hyperactivity, I'm sure. I guess it's just
easy for people to just slap a label on someone who's "different".
My therapist seems to think that my PTSD has an awful lot to do with
what just happened to me and this "manic" thing that I was in.. He
doesn't seem to think that Bipolar fits me, so I'm really happy about
that. I'm sure it'll all work out and I'll have more of an answer than
what I've been given in the past. The problem is, I'm not textbook.
I'm one of those "interesting" or "complicated" people that's had a
LOT of trauma and some of these "symptoms" can be somewhat PTSD-
related but sort of meld into the bipolar realm, so it's kind of
tricky.
Topamax is bad, bad bad ***.. What I'm trying to figure out now,
though, is that if I'm NOT bipolar, then how did the Topamax put me in
the state I was in for almost 2 weeks? I've done some reading about
it and it seems like I'm not the only one who had a really bad
reaction to that medication.

Have you run through the pain docs list of AD's that they toss to you
before
they acknowledge the need for actual pain relief? Stuff like Elavil,
Cymbalta, and Lyceria? Some people with FM swear by them, some call them
junk, but they're worth a test drive. I have no idea if they are in the
same
class of anti depressants or not, I just know some swear they help
amazingly.

I've been on Elavil (gained TONS of weight) before, didn't help with
my pain at all, just helped me sleep and eat sugar.. Cymbalta didn't
help my pain whatsoever, but I was doing really well with it for
depression for 2 months.. then it stopped working. I'm seeing my OB/
GYN next week to discuss the perimenopause, and I'm hoping that I
won't have to add an anti-depressant. ( I just started the lithium
yesterday and am cautious of becoming over-medicated again). Cymbalta
was a bitch to get off of, and I've been on several different ADs over
the last 10 years.. They just don't seem to help with my mood swings,
hence why I wanted to get back on a mood-stabilizer. I take
Trazedone for sleep, and it's helping a lot.. Since I came off the
Topamax, my sleep improves every night. Seriously, I felt like I was
on speed the whole time I was taking it, and I've never done speed,
but it's what I imagine it'd feel like. <shudder>

I hope this doesn't sound prejudiced or racial or something, but if you're
dealing with Jewish Docs, this week is Passover which is a holiday of some
significant religious importance. It's family time which might mean going
out of town. Registered Nurses are able to Rx class 2 narcotics in most
states, as can P.A.'s, but it could be one of those deals where the office
policy dictates talking to the M.D. first. I wouldn't sweat what the hired
help thinks about you down there or anyone for that matter. Joke them if
they can't take a f**k. They all cover their asses plenty. Worry about
you.
One other thing before I close out. Those flu like symptoms you're feeling
could very well be a touch of narcotic withdrawal. When it's full blown,
high dose, long term use withdrawal, it's like the worst stomach flu you
can
imagine, with the addition of a feeling I can only describe as wanting to
jump out of your skin. This usually is pretty solid for about 3 or 4 days
in
most cases, then the physical issues start to ease up. The mental
component
of withdrawal can last the rest of your life. There doesn't have to be a
mental part and usually is there only in abusers and such. Put it this
way,
ask yourself if you were suddenly without pain, would you hesitate to tell
the doctors off and toss all your meds in the john? Be honest now. I don't
think most CP'ers would give it a second thought. Depending on cost, I
might
even make one last appointment, just to wipe my ass with their damn Rx's
and
toss them at the doctor. Something fitting, from one *** to another.
Hope you're feeling better soon and get all the BS in your medicinal life
straight in short order. Just be honest and firm and take no *** and tell
them you don't expect any if they want their job. You never know. The next
doctor you hire might actually end up being caring and competent. They are
out there somewhere, so I hear anyhow.

I actually did have the flu a month or so ago, but thanks for the info
about what to expect if I do have to taper down and completely stop.
It's kind of scary. The only thing I've ever had to withdraw from was
cigarettes (the one time I quit for over a year and the hardest thing
I've ever been through quitting-wise) and coffee (the one time I gave
that up for a while). The one time I decided to not take any
oxycodone just to "see how i felt", I lasted until 3 p.m. By that
time, I had a raging headache but that's about it. If I were suddenly
without pain at all.. I'd jump for joy, first.. but to be honest, I'd
probably want to keep the pills on hand for the "just in case" thing.
I don't think I'd be able to keep going to the doctor and lying to him
about my pain (if I wasn't in pain.) that's not my style. I don't want
to become one of those people, you know? That scares me. I know how I
take them, I know why I take them, and now I'm figuring out the best
way TO take them. It bugs me when my friend said to me the other day
"oh, you're still on the oxy's"? I said "yes, I've been prescribed
oxycodone for the numerous medical/pain problems I have. Please don't
say "on" them. I'm not using them to get high. Want to see my Xrays
on cd? or the doctor's report?" It really pissed me off!! I've been
asked by a friend to sell him some, and I refused. I told him to never
ask me that again. I won't give them away, I won't sell them, and I
don't take 4 a day if I don't exercise that day. I'm really trying to
be as careful as I can with them, because I've seen people go through
withdrawl from heroin and it's really scary ***. I realize finding
a good doctor takes time.. I wish I could go back to my old primary
care doc.. she was SO good.. but I don't have a car and she's 30
minutes south of me.. I'm going to see how the next appt. goes with
this Dr. H and go from there. Thank you so much for your compassion,
kind words, and understanding. Take care of you, too. Have a less-
painful evening!
-Melissa


Take Care--og

"painfully aware" <movetoh...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:1175696389.011162.232780@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



Hello again. it's Liss. I changed my name.
I need to preface this by saying that I truly
hate doctors. :)
Dx - Degen. Disc Disease in spine, bulging disc(s), arthritis in
knees, bone spurs in both knees, chronic headaches (the LEAST of my
pain atm), fibromyalgia, carpal tunnel syndrome, high bp. Psych dx-
ptsd, bpd, and some variant of bipolar disorder (I've never been
properly diagnosed or hospitalized). So... here goes. If this is too
much bitching, please move on. I need to vent because I know some if
not most of you will understand.

Was referred to Dr. H in December. (the "pain" doctor) - was started
on 5 mg oxycodone 1-4 times daily as needed. That did not help. He
upped the dose (i believe in Feb.) to 15 mg oxycodone 1-4 times daily
as needed. FINALLY figured out that 4 pills within 4 hours AFTER i
have exercised is the most pain relief I've had from this medicine.
I'm all excited because I haven't been able to walk (that much, esp.)
since last October. Not to mention, my pain went from an 8 to a 4
(tolerable for me) with 4 pills in 4 hours. FIRST TIME IN MONTHS I've
been comfortable. Yippee!
at my last appt. (which was in Feb).. doc H thinks that my headaches
might be caused by the opioid use, either from simply taking them or
by rebound headache. (I've gone in there twice circling my head for
pain areas. Since starting on Inderal, my headaches have lessened
quite substantially, but I thought this doctor wanted to know where
EVERY pain I had THAT DAY was, and I did have the flu that day. my
head was pounding. My bad) - I also told him I had the flu and that
"at this point, headaches are the least of my problems, and certainly
not nearly as painful as my back/knees are". He didn't say anything
at all. Evidently he has some listening difficulties, because there
are several errors in my chart, and it's not from me not telling him
correctly.
Dr. H refers me to a Neurologist, presumably for my history with
headaches, but on the records I obtained, it says "neuro consult as
analgesic headache as component as we continue with treatment" and
that he's not going to adjust the dose of the medicine until he hears
from the Neuro. Skip to Neuro appt. last Monday.

*** note *** I won't delve much into the fiasco with the psychiatrist
I've been seeing, but I will say this.. Because HE didn't listen, and
because I didn't INSIST that HE listen to ME (I had started to cry and
tell him how weird my moods have been all month and he interrupted me
to discuss my eating/exercise regime), he upped the dose of Topamax
that I had started March 1 as a way to seek mood stabilization.
(Topamax is not supposed to be used as a SOLE mood stabilizer, but
evidently this doctor is a fucking moron and could give a flying fuck
about anyone, especially me, since I'm apparently so fucking
complicated) This increase thrust me into a full hypo/manic episode,
switching to a mixed state. All hell broke loose. I lost my mind. I
was not myself. I thought I was on a bad acid trip, because this has
happened to me before, but I was on LSD at the time. Just imagine
feeling euphoria AND distraught at the SAME TIME. IT was a fucking
nightmare. I should probably have gone to the ER, but I have never
been locked up, and I didn't want to be. That terrified me more than
staying in my apartment, where I feel safe.

Neuro appt- (last Monday)I'm in this completely manic state.. don't
remember much about the appointment except that there was a medical
student there who tried to take my history, me talking non-stop.. the
appt. runs over because I can't shut up. Doc comes in, asks me why I'm
here. I said "i think it's because dr. H thinks I have headaches that
need to be looked at, but I haven't bought any excedrin, alleve, advil
or taken anything else for them for over 2 years. I believe the
Inderal helps them a lot". (so had the Topamax, but at this point, I
WANT OFF THIS NIGHTMARE DRUG!) - explained, Not sure at all if these
people realize that I am manic and freaking out, but he tells me to
stop taking the Topamax. He assures me it's okay because I haven't
been on it very long. Okay then.great.. my bp was low, he looked into
my eyes, and that's about all I remember, except that he did say that
he does not think my headaches are related to analgesic use. "you
haven't been on the pain medicine for long enough for them to be
rebound headaches or being caused by the oxycodone". Great. He says
he'll tell Dr. H that there's no reason to discontinue the pain
medicine and that my headaches seem to be manageable at this time. If
I get the mercury serum and he finds the mercury level to be high, he
says I can come back and see him to discuss that as a possibility to
the headaches. cool. Skip to..... Dr. H appt. supposed to be this
past monday.

Receptionist calls last Friday to reschedule. "He's not even going to
be here at all next week, but you can come in and pick up your
prescription" Great. I have an appt. with my primary care doc (who
i've never met) on Tues. They're in the same building. Can I just stop
in and get it? "yes. he'll call if there's a problem with that". Okay
then.. Skip to yesterday.. I go in, try to pick up the script before
my appt. with the pcp. "It's not ready yet. can you wait?" "no, i
have an appt. upstairs, i'll come back down after that". okay then..
I'm thinking this is kind of weird, I'm

...

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